13-07-2002 04:30									#31
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quote: "sensitive" laws always have to get a green light from the military regime. these are the laws that prohibit civil liberties, allow tortures not alloing a democracy to funtion etc.

Like an oversight committee. How does that amount to dictatorship? It doesn't. Just Greek propaganda.

quote: and cyprus was invaded with the blessings of the US.

Yep and we should have. The turks were attempting to prevent a total Greek takeover of the island.

	13-07-2002 04:33									#32
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imran, what you mean is that free democracy is not applicable in turkey.

still, there can be steps towards it. the military regime is not to be helped by undermined. islamism is to be mooted and the democratic forces of turkey promped up.

	13-07-2002 04:36									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: "sensitive" laws always have to get a green light from the military regime. these are the laws that prohibit civil liberties, allow tortures not alloing a democracy to funtion etc. Like an oversight committee. How does that amount to dictatorship? It doesn't. Just Greek propaganda.

read the article you just posted.
tortures in jails, killings of kurds and serious human rights violations and suppression of civil liberties is not greek propaganda. EU says it, and the US says it, onmly not too loudly so it doesnt loose turkey from an ally.

quote: quote: and cyprus was invaded with the blessings of the US. Yep and we should have. The turks were attempting to prevent a total Greek takeover of the island.

you should have blessed the massacre of hubndernds???


godamn it you deserve one million OBLs you *****!

	13-07-2002 04:36									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yep and we should have. The turks were attempting to prevent a total Greek takeover of the island.

Actually, that's not true. The problem was that the Cypiot president was anathema to the rightwingers running the three other governments concerned, the US, Greece, and Turkey.

	13-07-2002 04:39									#35
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1600+ men, women and children still missing

70,000 held hostage in concentration camps


5000+ massacred or napalmed


thousands tortured and beaten
200,000 ethnically cleansed


500+ churches desecrated or destroyed


murders of refugees continue to this day

see what youve done you *****

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Takism8.htm

	13-07-2002 04:42									#36
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Paikti sit tight I've got a turkish co worker of mine to give us back Konsantinoupoli, he only wants to be able to visit

As for the germans they do not know anything about Turkey, their military, Kurds, Armenians and muslims. At least most of them! There's lots of germans who go to Turkey to for vacation because you can get something like a week there for 200 to 300 euros, including the flight!!! Anyway I say that they will get a wake up call when their Chancellor's name will be something like Abdullah Karim Ahmed Mullah or something (1 in 10 is turkish or from turkish origin in Germany!!!). So maybe the Kurds will regain their freedom but the turks will take over this wonderful land.

	13-07-2002 04:43									#37
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and lets not forget who was backing up the JUNTA that was attempting to unite cyprus with Greece at that time.

im not saying that there was a parthenogenisis of the enosis idea but to say you "should have" makes you deserve whatever's coming to you.

	13-07-2002 04:44									#38
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ecthelinaki is a troll. imran is just ignorant.

	13-07-2002 04:52									#39
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Looks bad. In times of domestic trouble, wars make for good methods to unite the people behind the government. It's time to wipe Greece off the map.

	13-07-2002 04:59									#40
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now do you wanna talk or do you want to troll?

Imran, bypassing your attrocius ignorant statement,


the military regime acts like the guardian of the secular system in Turkey as laid out by ataturk, in this you are correct.

most of th civil rights violations happen because of culture (e.x. gyneconolical exames of virginity for girls to be allowed to schools etc)

the government of turkey tries to put all these practises behind it.

if an islamist regime comes to power you can forget about that.


still the military has important say in: the kurdis question.

i mean it is ridiculous not to let mothers give their children kurdish names. this is the regime's action on that. as is the regimes action to not allow them to speak their language in publiv etc.


it is the regime's action to allow tortures in jails of people who only want to speak their minds and DEMOCRATISIZE turkey. as well as keeping in bay islamists.


and it is the regime that wont bring itself to come to a compromise with greece in the aegean.

as i said the only difference between the silamists and the military is the inner laws of turkey. the latter is better.

as for external relations its the same.

and again there is one concrete step to take in order to help turkey alieviate somehow its problems:
reduce arms purchases.

the military wont even let them do that in a time like this.



on an optimistic note, Cem announed today the formation of his own party... if it goes wel, who knows.


and che, yes the greek JUNTA (lets not forget that) was as responsible as turkey and the us for cyprus.


lets forget the fairy tales, cypriotes didnt want anyobody on their island, but themsleves.

	13-07-2002 05:00									#41
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all the turk trolls are here i see. here's shi. not worthy of an answer as always. just hush little shi and wait for your dirty bomb boy.

	13-07-2002 05:23									#42
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what do you think is more propable to happen shi?

as for the current situation the parameters are very bad for Turkey in geopolitical terms and that's the grim reality.

the outstanding issues are

_euroarmy: EU has already accepted the Greek proposals. Greece has the presidency of the defence buraeu of the EU (since Denmark opted to decline to take it).
with an unstable government in Turkey, with whom are you going to do business with?

_Cyprus assession to the EU in 2004. There is a GOLDEN opportunity to reunite the island without bloodshed. Denktas has to have his reigns pulled from Ankara from this to work. Ankara is in tatters, solution will not be found.

_economy...
as I said, there is a concrete step propsoed by Greece: we BOTH reduce our military spending (which for Greece is the highest % in Europe). We can afford it they cant.
But we will BOTH benefit. Military wont let her do that.


Sin Athena kai heira kinei

Help yourself and god (or allahin this case) will help you.

you cant save someone who doesnt want to be saved.

	13-07-2002 05:28									#43
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 _economy... as I said, there is a concrete step propsoed by Greece: we BOTH reduce our military spending (which for Greece is the highest % in Europe). We can afford it they cant. But we will BOTH benefit. Military wont let her do that.

Now that is something that can catapult both countries into dimensions never before imagined, problem with Turkey is that they cannot afford it. To much military influence and way to many borders with not all that friendly countries and I am not talking about Greece here.

	13-07-2002 05:38									#44
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The military regime of Turkey has obliged the "government" to use large sums of the IMF loans to keep the arms race going...

IMF's not too happy about that.

if they want to jump off the cliff, so be it.

As for the other threats facing Turkey. Yes, this is a hard reality and I agree with you. Still one less threat (Greece) should logically permit them to do some savings and some cut backs?

Especially since their military has for decades now assessed Greece as their most dangerous threat and we say, we are WILLING to cut back on arms.

and still they dont cut back. Some military men dont want to loose their comfy jobs me thinks...

we (Europe) sometimes forget how valuable to a country democracy really is...

luckily we (Greeks) always have Turkey to reminds us.


and the real victims in all this charade, remain the people of turkey, kurds and turks alike.

	13-07-2002 05:40									#45
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get a messenger, guys

	13-07-2002 05:41									#46
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buzz off half russian

	13-07-2002 05:42									#47
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I wonder what moods paiktis is in when typing all that kind. Is he laughing, is he mad... that'd be interesting...

	13-07-2002 05:44									#48
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killing time while downloading MP3s actually. youre just letters on my screen ecthelinaki

	13-07-2002 05:54									#49
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Sounds like Turkey will either:

Go Islamic as the people want, and default on it's loans

Have a military coup, in which hardliners will try to control an unruly populance

Have a civil war, with several factions

Lose a third of their country if the Armenians and Kurds get a nation.

None of it looks very appealing.

	13-07-2002 06:33									#50
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The armenians already have a nation. Will those Armenians defect?

	13-07-2002 06:33									#51
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quote: you should have blessed the massacre of hubndernds??? godamn it

Says the Greek that blesses all the massacres Alexander the Great has committed. Sorry, but the Greeks were trying a full takeover. The Turkish minority had to be saved.

	13-07-2002 07:34									#52
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 all the turk trolls are here i see. here's shi. not worthy of an answer as always. just hush little shi and wait for your dirty bomb boy.

Paitkis calling someone else a troll

Pot....... kettle..... black.............


All this talk of the disintegration of the Turkish state is bunk. The military is very strong and big in Turkey and will be able to impose orded by force if anything happens. The military also won't let any government get too Islamic, so the worst case scenario here would be another temporary military junta. The best case scenario is of course the Turks uniting in a war and destroying the communist/nazi/terrorist/evil State of Greece.

	13-07-2002 16:12									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: you should have blessed the massacre of hubndernds??? godamn it Says the Greek that blesses all the massacres Alexander the Great has committed. Sorry, but the Greeks were trying a full takeover. The Turkish minority had to be saved.

DOH! what does alexander the great has to do with any of it? snap out of it imran.

There was a greek junta, a greek dictatorship that was backed up by the US, and thats the one who wanted the enosis. so get your facts straight. and the turkish minority were not saved but condemned to decades of oppression and misery by mainland turksish fascists.

nice saving.

quote: All this talk of the disintegration of the Turkish state is bunk. The military is very strong and big in Turkey and will be able to impose orded by force if anything happens.

there is already a military regime and cant keep order to its politician pawns.

quote: The military also won't let any government get too Islamic, so the worst case scenario here would be another temporary military junta.

the situation is not in its control always

quote: The best case scenario is of course the Turks uniting in a war and destroying the communist/nazi/terrorist/evil State of Greece.

they cant.

it is far more propable for you to get killed in a terrorist attack in the US.

	13-07-2002 16:35									#54
	Inflate your Upload Space

and you forgot to say that we also have nice beaches.

	13-07-2002 17:03									#55
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I'm a Turk, living in Ankara, Turkey.
And I can't believe the things written here. How can all the things a person says could be wrong or lie?

"paiktis22"; Please do not continue to lies. I do not know if you really believe what you say or just want to affect people here, both are them disturbing. You are talking without knowing, it is very rude to talk about a country without knowing the realities. Anyone who knows the Turkey's facts must be laughing while reading your posts.

Please give up your hostile behaviours. You are blaming a country not a software company nor a football team.

And to all other people reading this; Please do not let anyones words to affect your thoughts about a country. Not "paiktis22" nor mine. If you want the truths, go and research. Than you can come and laugh the things written here.

I said all. So there will be no replies by me to this thread.

	13-07-2002 17:06									#56
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Bah, most of them are trolling (which means semi-lies) in responce to other's trolling.

If you want to talk seriously, I'm willing.

	13-07-2002 17:09									#57
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I have a question if you would like to answer it:

(and sorry for what you read, I was replying to trolls)

How do you think Cem's new party is going to do?

	13-07-2002 17:33									#58
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Bah, most of them are trolling (which means semi-lies) in responce to other's trolling.

Finally the truthe heas come out!!! As tous na lene Paikti!

	13-07-2002 17:39									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Erix I'm a Turk, living in Ankara, Turkey. And I can't believe the things written here. How can all the things a person says could be wrong or lie? "paiktis22"; Please do not continue to lies. I do not know if you really believe what you say or just want to affect people here, both are them disturbing. You are talking without knowing, it is very rude to talk about a country without knowing the realities. Anyone who knows the Turkey's facts must be laughing while reading your posts. Please give up your hostile behaviours. You are blaming a country not a software company nor a football team. And to all other people reading this; Please do not let anyones words to affect your thoughts about a country. Not "paiktis22" nor mine. If you want the truths, go and research. Than you can come and laugh the things written here. I said all. So there will be no replies by me to this thread.

Right on Erix but it's not a hostile discussion it's a fun discussion and I do not think anybody takes these comments as the truth. Relax....

	13-07-2002 17:47									#60
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Erix,

I have trolled England far harder than this, so relax

If you want to talk you are welcome, really