15-07-2002 07:27									#1
	Turnthread: Tuesday Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Alright, since we don't have any turnchats between now and the proposed turnthread, I'm starting up the 'official' thread for us to work off of.

This is how things will work. The ministers will review the current situation, then post instructions of two types. 1) Immediate Orders: These will be exactly what you want done within the next turn(s). 2) Tentative Orders: These will be orders saying the general 'mood' of what you want done.
For example, the City Planner's Immediate Orders could state "build 2 Archers in Apolyton and 1 in Termina," while his Tentative Orders would be "build units and improvements that would best benefit an offensive war." In other words, Immediate Orders are what you want done now, and that's how it'll be. Tentative Orders are for the President to work off using his own judgement, especially when something unforseen arises

Hopefully this kind of system will become more and more useful as more and more has to be done per the amount of time we have to work with. Eventually, these kinds of turnthreads may very well replace the turnchats, which have a tendancy of excluding many from the exact doings of what goes on. This will allow for a certain amount of definite ministerial orders, while also a basic guideline for the President to follow in case something not directly stated arises.

If anyone has any questions, then post them here. I will try to answer them the best I can.

I will post all of the ministers' orders here below for convenient viewing:

Foreign Ministry:

Buy Mathamatics from Rome for 171 gold
Sell Mathamatics to Aztechs for Horseback Riding and 50 gold
Sell Horseback Riding to Germany for 51 gold
Sell Horseback Riding to Babylon for 24 gold and a worker

End result, two new techs, 46 gold lost, and better relations with 4 nations.
End goal, to advance ourselves economically and techonologically.

SMC:
Warrior near Germany moves N
Warrior near America moves NE
Warrior near Persia moves NW

keep exploring
stick to the high ground (mtn / hills) where possible
gaeman warrior north until he hits water or finds something (civs borders)
Persian warrior scout persian / english borders
american warrior explore the moutain chain between persia and america.

archers/spearmen stack on that mountain and fortify until we have 2 spears and 6 archers. then we attack washington.

Last edited by Trip on 16-07-2002 at 23:47

	15-07-2002 07:28									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I am wondering about corrections. When someone makes a post, and later decides otherwise, do they add to the end of the forum, or edit their message? If they edit, then people wont know that they changed without constantly looking. If they add, things will get big, fast.

Last edited by Epistax on 15-07-2002 at 07:46

	15-07-2002 07:45									#3
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These are the plans of the Foreign Ministry.

Buy Mathamatics from Rome for 171 gold
Sell Mathamatics to Aztechs for Horseback Riding and 50 gold
Sell Horseback Riding to Germany for 51 gold
Sell Horseback Riding to Babylon for 24 gold and a worker

End result, two new techs, 46 gold lost, and better relations with 4 nations.
End goal, to advance ourselves economically and techonologically.

speacial thanks to Spiffor who designed these plans.

Last edited by Ninot on 15-07-2002 at 09:57

	15-07-2002 07:51									#4
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this gives the president way too much power

	15-07-2002 07:52									#5
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Just a sidenote : we can also get a worker from Babylon. We'll need the advice of Eli to know what to do with this worker (we get to move it immediately)

BTW, glad you changed your mind about turnthreads

edit : about long term vague orders, I'm against it. The very point of Ministers is that we elect people to be specialists in one particular matter, to achieve maximum efficiency. The SMC often has precise moves in mind, which are often better than the Prez would think of, simply because the Prez has 42 other things to do.
Same thing goes for city management : the City planner (or his local aides) are the best informed to decide what City #25 should build next : someone would have reflected about this. If the prez had to decide, it would rather been out of his feeling rather than thorought reflection (again, the prez has plenty of things to manage).

Trip : I know you say ministers don't have to post vague orders... But I also know you imagine the prez doing most of the actual unit moves in the late game. I think these moves should still be decided by the SMC and his aides. Taht's why we have a cabinet. If we wanted general orders, polls would be more than enough.

Last edited by Spiffor on 15-07-2002 at 08:05

	15-07-2002 07:54									#6
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX this gives the president way too much power

UK, the President in the Civ 2 Demo Game has five times as much power as this... we simply can't hold each other's hands and see which unit goes where forever. Even now, each turn is starting to take in upwards of 20 minutes or so. Soon we'll have more and more and more units and it'll be impossible to determine where each one of them goes.

	15-07-2002 08:09									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

bleh. i do not take repsonsibility for any actions i do not specifically order .

it's extremely hard to predict moves in advance. the moves (exploring mostly) must be looked at before the move is made.

as for general orders, you know i want to stack the ew armies on that mountain until we have 6 archers and 1 spear, and then we shall mobilize.

i'll post an image soon.

	15-07-2002 08:11									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I understand your concerns, but if you have a better way to handle 50 units in less than an hour and a half for at least 5 turns, feel free to share.

And would you care to make your next post with some sort of 'official' orders I can quote you on to put into my first post along with your image like Ninney did? Danke.

	15-07-2002 08:14									#9
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official : sell horseback riding to Babylon for 24 gold and a worker
(actually, that was originally the point of my previous post )

	15-07-2002 08:19									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor official : sell horseback riding to Babylon for 24 gold and a worker (actually, that was originally the point of my previous post )

Okay, changed.

	15-07-2002 08:25									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

im just saying during the exploring phase unit movement requires a hands on control.

later in the game turnthreads will eb useful.

	15-07-2002 09:56									#12
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I have a suggestion (can't make it official, since it's not my work) :
in Apolyton, we work on the second forest tile rather than the whales tile.
This way, we don't have population growth to worry about, and we produce 7 shields rather than 6. This means getting a unit every 3 turns rather than 4, and it could begin now. Only problem, we lose 2 gpt, but I don't think it's a big deal.

	15-07-2002 10:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I have a suggestion (can't make it official, since it's not my work) : in Apolyton, we work on the second forest tile rather than the whales tile. This way, we don't have population growth to worry about, and we produce 7 shields rather than 6. This means getting a unit every 3 turns rather than 4, and it could begin now. Only problem, we lose 2 gpt, but I don't think it's a big deal.

Agreed. This is a good thing for the City Planner to consider.

	15-07-2002 23:09									#14
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Being that this is our next course of action, it would probably be a good idea to get it back on the first page.

And remember, I only have one Minister's orders, I need more, or I'll take the liberty of making my own decisions based upon what I hear in this thread (like what Spiffy suggested).

	15-07-2002 23:13									#15
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Minor thing: it's tentative, not tenative.

	15-07-2002 23:15									#16
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Actually, I think we're currently discussing about what to do before 1475 ends. You'll pobably have new orders when 1450 BC begins (which should be the real turnchat ; currently, we're just working to improve our 1475 experience)

	15-07-2002 23:42									#17
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sigh...

Warrior near Germany moves N
Warrior near America moves NE
Warrior near Persia moves NW

keep exploring
stick to the high ground (mtn / hills) where possible
gaeman warrior north until he hits water or finds something (civs borders)
Persian warrior scout persian / english borders
american warrior explore the moutain chain between persia and america.

archers/spearmen stack on that mountain and fortify until we have 2 spears and 6 archers. then we attack washington.

thats 20 turns away so i dont have to worry about the attack yet. i'd really like a turnchat for that

	16-07-2002 23:37									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Bump, becuase we are playing in an hour, so this should be on the first page.

Imperial expansion orders are the same as they have been, build a city at the blue site when we get a settler.

	16-07-2002 23:41									#19
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The Blue city is already built. Nothing to expand right now.

	17-07-2002 00:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Jonny Bump, becuase we are playing in an hour, so this should be on the first page. Imperial expansion orders are the same as they have been, build a city at the blue site when we get a settler.

way to be on top of things jonny

	17-07-2002 00:40									#21
	Got spare money?

I'm still unsure of how this will work exactly... are you basically going to move a bunch of times and tell us what happened? is there no more following along?

I MISS THE EXCITEMENT ALREADY.

	17-07-2002 00:52									#22
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX I'm still unsure of how this will work exactly... are you basically going to move a bunch of times and tell us what happened? is there no more following along? I MISS THE EXCITEMENT ALREADY.

Since this is only 1 turn, that won't be a problem.

I will make the moves , then give a more detailed report on the turn than usual.

Of course, we'll have to work things out more to replace turnchats, since some things may come up and the task at hand may be too complicated for the President alone to determine. That is why I'm trying to lay the groundwork for how this may work in the future with only 1 turn.

	17-07-2002 00:55									#23
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it's 4:01 by my clock, so do your turn and gimmie the sav already!

	17-07-2002 01:16									#24
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Turnthread July 16th 2002 2100 GMT

End of Turn 62, 1475 BC
Buy Mathamatics from Rome for 171 gold
Sell Mathamatics to Aztecs for Horseback Riding and 50 gold
Sell Horseback Riding to Germany for 51 gold
Sell Horseback Riding to Babylon for 24 gold and a worker

New Worker in Apolyton moves N, NE to build new mine SE of Tassagrad

*Enemy Units scout around*

Turn 63, 1450 BC
Archer SW of Banana HQ moves NE, N onto Mountain
Babylonian Worker SE of Banana HQ begins building mine
Warrior near Germany moves N, sees nothing interesting
Warrior near America moves NE, finds Barbarian Camp to the E
Warrior near Persia moves W because Persian Archer moved onto spot Archer was planned on moving to
2 Archers on GOTO move towards mountain to the N of Banana HQ

Attachment: civ3demogame1450.sav
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

Last edited by Trip on 17-07-2002 at 02:00

	17-07-2002 01:16									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Excuse me, but has there been a thread with discussion about turnthread before? I'd not wan't to spam this official thread with some babble of what I personally think about turnthreads.

	17-07-2002 01:19									#26
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wow, i feel so involved.

	17-07-2002 01:21									#27
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I really don't like this turnthread thing. We may need it later, and I agree we should have trades and stuff like that prepared, but we should still have the actual chats in the chatroom. That way, if something unexpected comes up (new tech discovered by someone, city built on border, massive barbarian uprising, return of the Banana...you get the idea) the people have a say in handling it.

Well, that is just what I think. SO THERE!

	17-07-2002 01:27									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Trip : did you change the worked tile in Apolyton ? If not, please do so as soon as possible : I PMed Punkbass, who answered me he agreeds.

As for a discussion on turnthreads, you can find one here.

	17-07-2002 01:29									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

I personally liked how this turnthread went. Intermediary turnchats were never all that great, and getting them out of the way with a minimum of fuss like this is a good idea, IMO.

But I agree that the full turnchats are a big part of the game, and should be kept around as long as possible.

	17-07-2002 01:32									#30
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perhaps intermediatry turns should eb doe in turnthreads. we could mayeb even do 1 a day... but then that makes for 2-4 turns in between turnchats, which can be good for time but bad for planning.