17-07-2002 02:24									#31
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In that case, I think that we should try to populate this area as quickly as possible, we should try to get there before anybody else does!

	17-07-2002 02:28									#32
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I encourage the Foriegn Minister / Trade advisor / Science Advisor to attempt to grab mapmaking. we dont need it immediately, but the sooner the better.

EDIT: i'm going to do some quick checks if anyone will sell us, i'll let you people handle the nitty gritty

	17-07-2002 02:31									#33
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i got the froggies down to 141 lump ad 3 gpt... they aso made an offer for our map (world map + 130 lump), but i think it's ebst we not share that with anyone until we determine whats on the new land.

	17-07-2002 02:32									#34
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX bah. i just wanted an isle named after me! ::runs crying into the corner::

DOINK!!! It just hit me:
We should call it Uber-There.

	17-07-2002 02:33									#35
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I didnt check to see if there was anyone to sell it to either... you could look into that

	17-07-2002 02:56									#36
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Does America have it? If so, we could take all but one city, sue for peace, use the intervening 20 turns to rebuild our army and send a settler there, and then kill of America and attack France with our new army (assuming the French haven't built any Swordsmen)

	17-07-2002 03:06									#37
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I devised a map whoring project. You can see it in the Ministry of Trade thread

	17-07-2002 03:18									#38
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putting it here too:

i refuse to support any plan that reveals our map at this stage of the game.

if that is an island we see, we will be the soul colonizers of it. the second the AI sees it, they'll go there with their galleys that dont sink. we should keep it for ourselves.

	17-07-2002 03:53									#39
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OK, I'll put it here too (probably a better place to discuss anyways).
It's possible to buy the very expansive map of the Greeks for gold only. However, we probably won't have enough money to buy mapmaking after this. Since their map is very expansive, they must have discovered / traded many things.

But I still think we can trade our map with minimal damage. In my Civ experience, AI galleys sink as much as ours, but they can beeline to a shore as if they knew it was here beforehand (to be more precise, I give more moves to the galleys in my mod ; when you trade maps with the AI, it's surprising how they explore the very tiles which allow to corss oceans in one turn). That's why I think the AI knows the map, whether we give it or not.
As the AI knows the map, it knows the new island, and knows everything which can be settled. Giving them our maps won't change anything to this. But it will change soemthing for us : we'll know everything the AI has discovered. This will be great to prepare our next assault, or to look for unsettled land to grab (next to the Great Rift in particular).

	17-07-2002 05:01									#40
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The island is of more importance than the Greek map.

	17-07-2002 05:03									#41
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I think we should get mapmaking as soon as possible and if the AI really knows the map then whats the harm in givin it away

the thing is we gotta colonize the quickly

	17-07-2002 05:04									#42
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I typically bee line for Map Making myself; then I buy the other civs's maps, but don't sell them mine.

In my experience with giving them maps, the AI makes a drive straight for the stuff your map shows. When I don't give it to them, then they may get their, but it is much slower.

	17-07-2002 05:07									#43
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If the island has some really good land, we could really bolster our army, even losing some guys on galleys.

	17-07-2002 06:21									#44
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The point is that the French / whoever have some habitable land NEXT to them, the chances that they give that up for the island are minimal, especially if we dont give them the map.

the french have to pass our territory to get to Uber Isle, it's persia i'm worried about...

plus, we dont see half of the other people

some of them might live there

	17-07-2002 06:49									#45
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We don't have to give our map to Persia. Currently, we can trade its map for mapmaking. Even if mapmaking devaluates too much, we can still throw mathematics in.

	17-07-2002 07:40									#46
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If we sell our map to one civ, isn't it likely to turn around and sell it to every other civ (like they do with techs)?

	17-07-2002 10:32									#47
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That has been my experience.

	17-07-2002 17:10									#48
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My only immediate change is to switch the capital from working the whalt to working a forest.
Long term; follow Case Pink, dammit

	17-07-2002 17:17									#49
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Actually, it's Case Blue now.

	17-07-2002 18:25									#50
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Well, case pink was really just the building plans, not so much the attack posture. i guess it could still be called Case pink, whatever

	17-07-2002 20:14									#51
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um may i point out but with the invention of map makingit shoud be alot easier to exploit the iron to east considering its very close to the sea and it is also mean we can get there a lot faster.

	17-07-2002 20:14									#52
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um may i point out but with the invention of map making it shoud be alot easier to exploit the iron to east considering its very close to the sea and it is also mean we can get there a lot faster.

	17-07-2002 20:16									#53
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um. May I point out but with the invention of map making it shoud be alot easier to exploit the iron to east considering its very close to the sea and it is also means with the triemes we can get there a lot faster. Maybe map making should be considered a high priorty as a part of plan eagle

	17-07-2002 20:23									#54
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Let me just get this right. Is our SMC going to support building a galley during Case Pink, pushing the date of invasion backwards or making us go with less forces. If you support making a Galley, which of the options would you be most keen on going with.

	17-07-2002 20:24									#55
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soory about the excess posts but for some reason i can't delete them

	17-07-2002 20:29									#56
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It takes 80 shields to build a harbor, which is what we would need if we intend to get the Iron into circulation. As Sir Ralph has pointed out that would simply take to long a time to build in a 1-shield city. Besides we will probably get access to Iron if we conduct an oscillating war with the Americans and the French, something that seems to have gained popular support through Sir Ralphs campaigning.

	17-07-2002 20:36									#57
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Should we not wait until the invasion of america, get mapmaking from the americans when they sue for peace, and build our galley then? We should not slow down our military production before the war, especially as it may be for nothing. Don't forget, we cannot safely traverse the sea, so we may need more than one galley to even reach the far coastline, and we definitely will to safely get a settler across, using Uber's idea.

	17-07-2002 21:16									#58
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No, we have another building phase coming up, and it'd be good to fit two or three galleys (what we need for the Uber Gambit) into it. We can get Map Making from the French for the lowest price.

	17-07-2002 22:47									#59
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I'm no geograpy student but from the direction of that coastline I think it's likely that it is part of our continent.
Although it's still worth getting a foothold there and quick cos if it's not an island then the AI will have cities there soon.

	17-07-2002 23:53									#60
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I have two current theories for the geography.

1) the super continent we are on swoops to form a correct 'C' shape, so that the water we see south of us is actually a bay, like a big mouth opening on the east.

2) two totally separate continents. Due to our difficulty, we are on the one with more people. The other one might have only two civilizations providing for tough opponents (ie zulus with cruise missiles).

Eitherway, Boat + Settler = Soon