16-07-2002 23:02									#1
	US Congress lobbies for the return of the marbles of Parthenon to Greece. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I only got the news in Greek.

http://greece.flash.gr//soon/2002/7/16/18993id/


I would just like to say thanks to the US and the Americans for taking initiative and supporting us in this noble quest. To bring the marbles of Parthenon back to Acropolis from where they are held in captivity in the British Museum

Thanks

I'd just like to try and translate back to english the names of the american senators who have taken action for the US Congress to vote in favor and lobby for the return of the marbles to their place of origin.

(sorry for the spellking mistakes - Translated from Greek)

Fitzerald, Toriceli, Liberman, Sarbanis, Pain, Maloni, Blumenaouer, Berclay, Berman, Blakocevic, Crawly, Doyle, Essou, Fossela, Gilman, Hidsi, Kenedy, Nolemberg, Lantos, Lee, Moagovern, McNalti, Mink, Palown, Ros- Leitinen, Roybart Allard, Waters, Bilirakis.

Again thank you very much

The marbles of Parthenon will return and when they do, initiatives and the help of all those who added to this effort will be remembered

	16-07-2002 23:04									#2
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They are all sorry that Greece has lost its marbles .

	16-07-2002 23:07									#3
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Imran, you dirty *******, I was just about to use that stupid joke!

	16-07-2002 23:09									#4
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MWAHAHAH

	16-07-2002 23:09									#5
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HA! We'd give up Gibraltar before we return your marbles..oh crap..

	16-07-2002 23:21									#6
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While I don't care one way or the other about some fancy calcium carbonate blocks, it's heart warming to see the USA once again supporting it's unfailing ally the UK and show how much the "special friendship" matters to it. Raise the tariffs a bit a bit more, makes us feel all special inside.

	17-07-2002 00:11									#7
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Yesterday random Senators were talking about Sesame Street. Today they are talking about marbles. Don't they have anything do to up on Capitol Hill?

	17-07-2002 00:22									#8
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I saw an article a while back where some in the Australian goverment supported the return of the marbles. Don't know where it was though.

	17-07-2002 00:22									#9
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They must be like poly posters, always concerned about the other guy's country Iain!

	17-07-2002 00:28									#10
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I support the return of the marbles to Sesame Street!!

	17-07-2002 00:31									#11
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Don't they have anything do to up on Capitol Hill?

Not really. Feel free to snub them. It isn't even close to a majority of Senators.

	17-07-2002 00:53									#12
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Surely there must have just been a documentary on Parthenon's bygone splendour for so many lawmakers to get involved. At least that's the way it's done here. Show a 40 minute program depicting the outrageous conditions homeless cats have to endure and a special session is called in the Parliament.

Still, fanatic nationalism about ancient times is an important trait in Greek culture, so let's play along this time also.

	17-07-2002 01:08									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Still, fanatic nationalism about ancient times is an important trait in Greek culture, so let's play along this time also.

hey, we're talking about the pinnacle of human civilisation here!

	17-07-2002 01:09									#14
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Since when does the US Congress debate anything of serious importance to the people of the country? To the serious interests of the lobby groups, yep, but nothing else.

I think the people need a lobby group

	17-07-2002 01:27									#15
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quote: In 1978, a European court ruled the marbles were the property of the British Museum, and that's in Europe. So is Greece. European heritage is held in Europe. what's the problem? And even if the marbles were returned to Greece -they wouldn't go back up on the Parthenon but move from a British to a Greek museum. In Athens? Not necessarily. That's because other regions have prior claims. In the 5th century BC, Athens and its neighbours united as the Delian League to fight the Persians. Athens then appropriated the communal war chest which Pericles used to beautify Athens. So the Parthenon's frieze and metopes weren't paid for by Athenians after all, and the next campaign for the return of the marbles could conceivably come from Naxos, Thasos, Boeotia and the rest of the league (now partly in Greece and partly in Turkey). Of course, if the descendants of Phidias's wife put in a bill for all that unpaid housework supporting her sculptor husband, then even at a modest interest rate, auctioning off the Elgin marbles wouldn't cover it.

	17-07-2002 01:30									#16
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Yesterday random Senators were talking about Sesame Street. Today they are talking about marbles. Don't they have anything do to up on Capitol Hill?

Clearly not. I mean, it's not as if we have any serious issues facing the nation or anything

This is none of our concern. This is between Britain and Greece.

-Arrian

	17-07-2002 15:45									#17
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Spray,
"I saw an article a while back where some in the Australian goverment supported the return of the marbles. Don't know where it was though."

Quite a lot of governments, members of parliement and NGOs support the cause of returning the marbles of Parthenon to their rightfull place. Glad to see that the US is joining in and quite actively, I might add.

Dino,
"Not really. Feel free to snub them. It isn't even close to a majority of Senators."

These are the senators who have taken action and submitted not one but two voting procedurs for the whole US Congress to vote in favor of the return of the marbles. Many times the voting procedure is called by one person only, so the fact that they were numerous of them only makes things better.

Sagacious,
"In 1978, a European court ruled the marbles were the property of the British Museum, and that's in Europe. So is Greece. European heritage is held in Europe. what's the problem? "

Then you should give us hatever you have that doesnt even come close to the magnificance of the marbles of Parthenon to us. Say the queens crown jewelry or something. They will still be in Europe.
Fact is you already have lots of stolen rtifacts from many countries. The marbles of Parthenon though belong to Greece.


"And even if the marbles were returned to Greece -they wouldn't go back up on the Parthenon but move from a British to a Greek museum. In Athens? Not necessarily. That's because other regions have prior claims. In the 5th century BC, Athens and its neighbours united as the Delian League to fight the Persians. Athens then appropriated the communal war chest which Pericles used to beautify Athens."

Yes.

"So the Parthenon's frieze and metopes weren't paid for by Athenians after all, and the next campaign for the return of the marbles could conceivably come from Naxos, Thasos, Boeotia and the rest of the league (now partly in Greece and partly in Turkey). "

Let's see, Naxos, Thasos and Boetia are all part of Greece.
But see, the difference is that we are now a Greek state no longer a city state nation. Feel the difference. Plus the marbles of Parthenon addorned the well Parthenon. SO they go where they were stolen from.

"Of course, if the descendants of Phidias's wife put in a bill for all that unpaid housework supporting her sculptor husband, then even at a modest interest rate, auctioning off the Elgin marbles wouldn't cover it."

There are no elgin marbles. It's like me stealing Backinham palaces and then call it Paiktis' palaces. And it doesnt even boost my ego. (after all they're not too special).
Phidias' wifer would be supporting of the quest for the return of the marbles of Parthenon. Still if her opinion matters so much to you, I propose you visit the oracle of delphi. and munch on some leafs.

The marbles of Parthenon will return. The only thing that keeps them in the british musem is stubborness and fear that once people will demand back their heritage the british museum will be empty!

	17-07-2002 15:53									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild While I don't care one way or the other about some fancy calcium carbonate blocks,

why doesnt this surprise me?

quote: it's heart warming to see the USA once again supporting it's unfailing ally the UK and show how much the "special friendship" matters to it. Raise the tariffs a bit a bit more, makes us feel all special inside.

Europe is well aware of your special relationship with the US. George Michael too.

I find it a bit naive though for you to believe that you have some special hold over the US.

Actually I find this move of the american senators particularly friendly considering that in the past decades the relationship of Greece and the US was not exactly on the best of terms.

	17-07-2002 16:01									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Surely there must have just been a documentary on Parthenon's bygone splendour for so many lawmakers to get involved. At least that's the way it's done here. Show a 40 minute program depicting the outrageous conditions homeless cats have to endure and a special session is called in the Parliament.

Equating homeless cats (or sesame street for that matter) with the marbles of Parthenon is demining and insulting for the person who does it

quote: Still, fanatic nationalism about ancient times is an important trait in Greek culture, so let's play along this time also.

Fanatic nationalism would be to start a war with FYROM over the name and her childish aspirations over half of Greece.

Greeks are proud of their heritage. It's not our fault (actually it is) that it is the best heritage in Europe and the world.

This makes certain people uncomfortable. Barbarians after all
But it does create sometimes anti-Greek feelings on people with complexes. (the trend of wanting to be a descendant to an ancient Greek or wanting to be compared with ancient Greece)


I dont think Greeks are any more proud than the english for their heritage. It's just that there is no comparison between the two

	17-07-2002 16:06									#20
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example of the British Civilization

quote: ...one other British tourist I bumped into whilst in Rhodes proudly told me how he had vomited at the top of the ancient Acropolis at Lindos, so hungover was he...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/ta...000/2073922.stm

	17-07-2002 16:06									#21
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After all in which other country a construction worker can look upon a marble of 2000 years old and understand the words? If this construction worker feels a connection to his ancestors why is he to be blamed for it?

The most nationalistic people are to be found away from Greece.

Greek "nationalism" is cosmopolitan in contrast with other peoples' nationalism which is hermetic and racist.

	17-07-2002 16:46									#22
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Sure.

	17-07-2002 16:47									#23
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Loved the counter argument
Glad we agree

	17-07-2002 16:56									#24
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG example of the British Civilization quote: ...one other British tourist I bumped into whilst in Rhodes proudly told me how he had vomited at the top of the ancient Acropolis at Lindos, so hungover was he... http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/ta...000/2073922.stm

It's even worse in Portugal, I have met quite a few brits in my travels bu they are the nastiest and most tasteless tourists for sure, plenty of exceptions but still. They could solve the problem by finally getting their act together and instate a nightlife in the UK!

	17-07-2002 16:58									#25
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quote: After all in which other country a construction worker can look upon a marble of 2000 years old and understand the words? If this construction worker feels a connection to his ancestors why is he to be blamed for it?

Israel?

	17-07-2002 17:01									#26
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Yes and China also.
But I thought all your construction workers were Palestinians, see.

	17-07-2002 17:05									#27
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no , there are jewish construction workers, but most of the construction workers are Romanians, and Ukrianians.

not many people want to work with palestinians, as there have been many occasions in which the palestinians killed their employers.

	17-07-2002 17:07									#28
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Well if the pay was not adequate...

	17-07-2002 17:15									#29
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Oh, look , the great revolutionary has spoken.

	17-07-2002 17:16									#30
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Wha?

Come, come my 2 meter Dalgetti ( ), it was just a joke.

But you didn't exactly clarify the line "palestinians have killed their employers". It looks too much like easy slur, wether it is or not.