18-07-2002 11:59									#61
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You know, why the Turks changed it, I can't say. Maybe they just liked it better that way...

	18-07-2002 12:00									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Next, we'll debate whether people who want a rock to wind a piece of string about or the people who wear prosthetic foreheads on their heads deserve to have their playhouse burnt down.

I couldn't debate that. I'd be fired if that were my job, after killing Jason off and countless screaming Argonauts.

	18-07-2002 13:12									#63
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Ok. I am really tired so maybe that's why I thought of such a vulgar joke Telika auto pou i8ele gia na paradex8ei tin elliniki klironomia itan enas poulos ellinikos ahem...

	18-07-2002 13:13									#64
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Telika auto pou i8ele gia na paradex8ei tin elliniki klironomia itan enas poulos ellinikos ahem...

EDIT: Sorry about the double post, I am trying to delete the second one but it wont let me!

	18-07-2002 13:58									#65
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How about if you post some sphotos of this structure, so the rest of us can decide whether "enhanced" or "ruined" is the more appropriate word?

	18-07-2002 14:01									#66
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from outside it remains as enchanting as ever.

from inside it is the devastation.

	18-07-2002 16:00									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Hey, I put Italian at third, didn't I?

Uhmmm
That's true

Ok I forgive you.....

But you should do th food trip around the Mediterraneum as well

Ok... I'm going to eat some Gnocchi now

Saluti

	19-07-2002 03:24									#68
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quote: And it is not "nationalistic" to state the obvious. That The church has been destroyed inside, the paintings and everything else have been destroyed so it looked better when it was not destroyed.

No, you are wrong .

The Muslims didn't now destroy the chuch, but made it look better.

If ANY destruction was done it was during the 4th Crusade when the west pillaged the Hagia Sophia.

	19-07-2002 03:32									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And it is not "nationalistic" to state the obvious. That The church has been destroyed inside, the paintings and everything else have been destroyed so it looked better when it was not destroyed. No, you are wrong . The Muslims didn't now destroy the chuch, but made it look better. If ANY destruction was done it was during the 4th Crusade when the west pillaged the Hagia Sophia.

	19-07-2002 03:34									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And it is not "nationalistic" to state the obvious. That The church has been destroyed inside, the paintings and everything else have been destroyed so it looked better when it was not destroyed. No, you are wrong . The Muslims didn't now destroy the chuch, but made it look better. If ANY destruction was done it was during the 4th Crusade when the west pillaged the Hagia Sophia.

Yes, we do have a nasty streak, don't we?

	19-07-2002 03:36									#71
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have you ever been to Hagia Sophia my oppressed muslim american?

no you havent. I have.

the church is destroyed inside. there is nothing but the walls. the paintings the icons are all destroyed.

a church looks better when it is not destroyed. stating the obvious is always a challenge with you.

	19-07-2002 03:40									#72
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quote: I couldn't debate that. I'd be fired if that were my job, after killing Jason off and countless screaming Argonauts.

Oh, don't let's start. This is the worst part.

	19-07-2002 03:40									#73
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as for who destroyed it Im not sure.

I know that when suleyiman entered it, it was not destroyed but he found his islamist warriors destroying it.


he hit his sambre in a pillar of the church and shouted: dont desotry this holy place, go destroy the city but not this temple.


apparently his wises were not obeyed later because the church is completely destroyed inside.

	19-07-2002 03:41									#74
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Apples... Oranges...

	19-07-2002 03:44									#75
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it is heartbreaking to see the church in such a state of destruction though.

at least for the Greeks. for the rest I dont know

	19-07-2002 03:49									#76
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BTW its the first time I hear Hagia Sophia was pillaged (not by the west, such thiung didnt exist back then) but by crusaders. i know they sacked constantinople but not hagia sophia.


the latin hatred/jealousy for byzantium was immense though particularly after the fall of the western roman empire (while byzanmtium stood tall for anothjer 1000 years) so it wouldnt supreise me if they did.


but when the turks conquered it Hagia Sophia was in full glory.

	19-07-2002 04:00									#77
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the leader of the turks was god fearing and didnt want his islamist warriors to desotry the temple (so that the wrath of god didnt fall on his head or anything ) so he told them not to destroy it.

someway along time though, the church was obviosuly pillaged and all the golden paintings and icons are removed.

later the turks PAINTED over icons and wall paintings.

so sorry but you are wrong imran. the turks did destroy it.


stop being such a muslim enthousiast my 1/4 turk is it?

	19-07-2002 04:54									#78
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quote: later the turks PAINTED over icons and wall paintings. so sorry but you are wrong imran. the turks did destroy it.

Of course they painted over them... and put in place four, highly beautiful lapis plates with koranic verses in gold. That's making it better, not destroying it.

	19-07-2002 04:57									#79
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the church was filled with beautiful golden painting on the walls.

the turks painted them over and destroyed them.


from the pillars the hanged 4 cheap looking plates with islamic symbols.

and you think it's an improvement.

I hope not all muslims have the same taste as you

	19-07-2002 04:57									#80
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quote: the church is destroyed inside. there is nothing but the walls. the paintings the icons are all destroyed.

They were painted over, in white. It is much better than having a ton of ugly mosaics around. A whitewashed wall pointing towards the great dome, with ornaments asplender. The mosaics only took away from that art.

Hagia Sophia now:
Justinian's Hagia Sophia:

quote: at least for the Greeks.

Funny seeing it was done by a Roman .

And yes it is much better to have plainness and going towards a center rather than a lot of mosaics on the outside taking away from the dome. It's basic aestics, something Greeks wouldn't know about .

	19-07-2002 05:01									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Oh, don't let's start. This is the worst part.

But... but... I believe for all the world that you're my precious little girl.

	19-07-2002 05:02									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: the church is destroyed inside. there is nothing but the walls. the paintings the icons are all destroyed. They were painted over, in white. It is much better than having a ton of ugly mosaics around. A whitewashed wall pointing towards the great dome, with ornaments asplender. The mosaics only took away from that art.

Those mosaics were some of the best art in the world.

I somehow find it difficult to believe that white paint is better.

quote: Hagia Sophia now: Justinian's Hagia Sophia:

just your muslim in you speaking.

quote: quote: at least for the Greeks. Funny seeing it was done by a Roman .

One and the same.

quote: And yes it is much better to have plainness and going towards a center rather than a lot of mosaics on the outside taking away from the dome. It's basic aestics, something Greeks wouldn't know about .

tell me, your father is a taliban isn;t he?

	19-07-2002 05:04									#83
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Look at the Lincoln monument. On the sides are plain white marble with inscriptions. It looks a HELL of a lot of better than putting gold, crappy looking mosaics. It moves your eye to the center with the statue.

quote: Those mosaics were some of the best art in the world.

They were crap. You want to see the best art go to Southern Spain, where you'll find breathtaking Moorish structures which there is no equal.

	19-07-2002 05:06									#84
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Of course the best archatecture in Istabul is the Blue Mosque, built in the 17th Century by the Ottomans:

http://islamicity.com/Culture/MOSQU...ope/TMp145a.htm

	19-07-2002 05:11									#85
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The golden mosaics were far from being "crap".

They were indeed beautiful. There is actually just one partially remaining after the destrcution and it just takes your breath away.


The ottomans just copied orthodoxy to build that temple BTW. They didnt have a culture of their own but borrowed yet again Greek culture.


Maybe as a muslim you think that white paint is better than golden mosaics, but as I said you are propably the son of a taliban.

	19-07-2002 05:16									#86
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quote: The ottomans just copied orthodoxy to build that temple BTW. They didnt have a culture of their own but borrowed yet again Greek culture.

Muslim culture was very dynamic and wonderful. The Greeks couldn't even build half of that Blue Mosque.

Let's see:



The top is the restored, the bottom unrestored. Sorry, but I prefer the whiteness to the gold-everywhere ugly look.

Then again you are the son of the Crusader ignorant.

	19-07-2002 05:19									#87
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Some Islamic architecture, which pattycakes say wasn't that good:

Inner view of the Great Mosque at Damascus

	19-07-2002 05:20									#88
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The Dome of the Rock:

	19-07-2002 05:21									#89
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Tunesia's Great Mosque of Qairawwan:

	19-07-2002 05:22									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The ottomans just copied orthodoxy to build that temple BTW. They didnt have a culture of their own but borrowed yet again Greek culture. Muslim culture was very dynamic and wonderful.

Propably is. But the ottomans just copied everything from the Byzantines. They were a mogol horde with no real culture of their own.

quote: The Greeks couldn't even build half of that Blue Mosque.

Actually as I said it is copied from the Greek orthodox architecture of Hagia Sophia.

quote: The top is the restored, the bottom unrestored.

They have not restored the golden mosaics no. It is impossible now.

quote: Sorry, but I prefer the whiteness to the gold-everywhere ugly look.

Golden mosaics were not just gold all around but beautiful works of intricate art.

I do not prefere white paint over them.

quote: Then again you are the son of the Crusader ignorant.

Better than being the son of a taliban who thinks white paint over breathtaking golden mosaics is a superior art.

A "worthy" heir to the taliban I might add