19-07-2002 07:14									#1
	Ministry of Science: Science Poll 1400 BC Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Poll lasts 3 days. Since it is likely that science will be incresed to 10% next turnchat, what shall we research?

CHoices:
Construction
Currency
Philosophy
COde of Laws
Literature
Polytheism


All will take 40 turns

	19-07-2002 07:19									#2
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*sigh*...3 minutes into it and there's already a banana vote .

I personally think currency would be the best choice.

	19-07-2002 07:41									#3
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My personal strategy (and it works really well, btw) is to go straight for the Republic and switch to that government. You reap alot more out of taxes compared to despotism, which I'm betting most of our oppenants will have until 100 B.C. at least. Anyway the extra revenue under a Republican government will allow us to put more into tech research and give us an edge on our opponants. So either Philosophy or code of laws would be my choice because they are prerequisites for the Republic.

Kman

	19-07-2002 07:50									#4
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Kman, considering we will probably fight lots of wars in the near future, I think that we should probably go for Monarchy instead of Republic. Republic has no unit support and some war weariness.

Of course, we'll probably stay in Despotism for the length of the wars, and research in a different direction.

	19-07-2002 08:48									#5
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Believe me when I say that I have conduted dozens of full scale, prolonged wars under the Republic and I find the effects of war wariness to be minamal, but that is because I usually have a fair supply of luxuries. I believe, if I hear correctly, that through war we should be obtaining dies and spices soon, i believe. This is plenty, ontop of a temple in the larger cities, war warines should be no problem. As far as unit support, we would be making much money under the Republic as to easily pay that off. I am not familiar with monarchy though, and wouldn't know its bonuses and stuff. I just remeber using it in civ 2 and then switching over to republic and seeing a huge difference. I understand though that in civ 3 they have probably changed alot since then. And also I usually play as the Romans and use them differently then our ministers have led our civ so far. So, I admit, my strategies may very well not apply to this case. Unfortunately.

Kman

	19-07-2002 09:30									#6
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I like literature. Though going for Republic does have huge bennifits.

	19-07-2002 10:45									#7
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I say go for Code of Laws.

	19-07-2002 10:56									#8
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Currency is the best choice :
- it's one of the most expansive techs, meaning we won't waste 40 turns to research something cheap.
- even if the AI discovers it first (which is likely to happen), we'll relatively reduce the value of currency when we'll buy it.
- With all this water / rivers (=commerce), marketplaces will be a must after the end of the war.
- We can't allow Republic as long as war is necessary / threatens, and as long as we are weak. A city going into civil disorder because of the war might prove crippling for our war efforts.

	19-07-2002 12:28									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

It really doesn't matter much. With only 10% it's highly unlikely to beat the AI to any tech on Emperor in the ancient age. Best chances has, may be, Polytheism, because it's on the "bottom" and the AIs usually start to research from the "top". But I don't think we'll be the first civ with Polytheism though and won't get any advantage.

The price of a tech equals a constant price divided by the # of civs that already have this tech. This makes techs on crowded landmasses (like ours) really cheap. Being on a continent with 11 actively trading AI civs, own research is only a waste of gold in this state of the game.

So Banana is my favorite.

	19-07-2002 14:35									#10
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Well, I too like to dive for the Republic first and scoop up the rest afterwards. I always change to Republic as soon as it becomes available. Never had much of a problem with war weariness or unit support costs. Never played on Emperor level with such a terrible start either though...

I haven't voted yet...

	19-07-2002 14:44									#11
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A quick estimate on our economical status if we were a Democracy now :

commerce : 25
corruption : minimal (maybe 1 or 2 gold lost to corruption)
Unit upkeep : 16.
20% entertainment required to calm down the population in Apolyton, Banana HQ and Termina
We'd make about 13 gpt less than currently, meaning we'd lose money at 100% tax.

I can't foresee the future, when Republic will be at hand. However, our military will begin to cost money next turn, under despotism.
Economically, going to Republic before we're done with war is nonsensical.

	19-07-2002 14:44									#12
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Republic is a nice to have, if you have 3 different luxuries and marketplaces in your core cities. If you don't meet these conditions, better wait with the Republic. It makes every unit cost money, and we have no martial law in the cities. This makes on Emperor already the 2nd citizen unhappy! Right now, Republic would be our ruin. Later, when we have built up our core and our armies have conquered 3 different luxuries, Republic will be a good choice.

	19-07-2002 14:49									#13
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BTW, I put up an official poll about the funding of science, which will last until next turnchat (previous one had to be unofficial).
You can find it here. There's currently only one vote. Don't let a minority decide for YOU !

	19-07-2002 15:34									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Right now, Republic would be our ruin. Later, when we have built up our core and our armies have conquered 3 different luxuries, Republic will be a good choice.

Right. Well, then let's try to have it ready for later.
We'll need to get currency first so we can build those marketplaces. Some libararies would be nice too, but I suppose that can wait a while longer.

Normally , I would argue that we really can't do much with a 10% science rate, but then again, some of those "heavy" techs in the ancient area are going to take 40 turns in any case, as no one currently has the infrastructure to research them any faster.

-But then again, with 11 civs already at work on it...

* Guardian shrugs.

	19-07-2002 17:44									#15
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spiffor is right. I usually race for republic, but then I rarely have this huge an army relative to number of cities and no luxuries (in other words i dont play on emperor :rolleyes.

	19-07-2002 21:47									#16
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Currency. I remember seeing somewhere else (I forget where) that for a 10% in science, it would still take 40 turns with everything else taking shorter amounts of time. Doesn't this mean that other civ's are reasearching those other item, thus we can trade for them faster then researching, and might get a usefull tech ourselves by research instead of wasting 20 turns and then getting it from trade.