19-07-2002 09:32									#1
	Problem with the New 1.29f Editor Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm not sure if anyone but Firaxis can help me on this one, but I figure I might as well ask anyways, you never know what you'll find out.

I'm working on a Civil War scenario, and I've run into a big problem. The scenario doesn't want to load the two civs correctly. It always defaults to the Union side when both civs should be playable, except your opponent is listed on the right as the Confederates, but you have no choice of which civ to play... it always defaults to the North and I can't change it. Another problem is that either side can build any unit (even if it's a UU you shouldn't have... all Union cities were producing "Confederate Raiders", for some reason, even though I had specifically allowed only the South to use them), and the whole thing is messed up. I tried making it so that only the Confederates are playable, and you get the Southern cities and the name "Confederate States of America", but all your cities are blue instead of grey, and your leader is "President Lincoln of the Confederates"... I'm thoroughly confused, and I've tried every combo of scenario and player settings, and the thing is still messed up. I think all these problems are related, but I can't be sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Edit]Okay, I just found out that all of my 60 Union cities got deleted also somehow.

Okay, after more troubleshooting I now have the choice of picking either the Union or the Confederates like normal. However, I still have the problem of when I play the South their color is blue instead of grey.
I think the problem now has to do with player 1 defaulting to the human, and under player properties, the color, treasury and name are set to what the Union should be. How can I get around this?[/Edit]

Last edited by Trip on 19-07-2002 at 18:16

	19-07-2002 17:08									#2
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Here's the current version.
(Thanks to Markos for renaming and moving, btw.)

Don't try to go to the city screen, otherwise the game will crash because I don't have all of the graphics ready. The true problem is in the set-up anyways. After trying the Union, go to scenario properties, and make sure the Confederates are the only side playable. Then try running it. It's even weirder.

Last edited by Trip on 19-07-2002 at 18:13

	19-07-2002 19:13									#3
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when in the editor, and your zoomed out, seems to take very long for the screen to refresh as I move around the map..

	19-07-2002 22:29									#4
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Trip did you forget to attach something?

	19-07-2002 23:03									#5
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Yep.
I wish there was a way to edit to add an attachment later on, but I suppose that doesn't exist. I had the problem solved by Dan anyways, so consider it a problem no more.

	20-07-2002 22:00									#6
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It is amazing that someone would even attempt to make a complex scenario with an advanced map editor. Well, good luck anyway.

	21-07-2002 08:20									#7
	Got spare money?

Before I'm accused of being a troll, let me present you with the events.txt file from one of the better Civ2 Civil War scenarios (from one of the best scenario designers ever, Capt. Nemo)...

quote: ; ; Events text for CW1861 Civil War Scenario ; By Captain Nemo 10/20/1998 ; ; @BEGINEVENTS @IF NOSCHISM DEFENDER=anybody @THEN @ENDIF @IF NEGOTIATION talker=Union talkertype=humanorcomputer listener=Confederates listenertype=humanorcomputer @THEN @ENDIF @IF NEGOTIATION talker=Confederates talkertype=humanorcomputer listener=Union listenertype=humanorcomputer @THEN @ENDIF @IF NEGOTIATION talker=French talkertype=humanorcomputer listener=English listenertype=humanorcomputer @THEN @ENDIF @IF NEGOTIATION talker=English talkertype=humanorcomputer listener=French listenertype=humanorcomputer @THEN @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=1 @THEN TEXT ^^Riots in Baltimore ^^April 19, 1861 ^Southern sympathizers attack the 6th Massachussetts regiment as it passes through the streets of Baltimore on the way to Washington. ENDTEXT CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Militia veteran=no homecity=Baltimore locations 72,26 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=1 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Militia veteran=no homecity=Baltimore locations 72,26 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=1 @THEN TEXT ^^The Nation divided! ^As the winds of war blow over the Nation, every citizen has to choose his side. Most of the Army Officers, of Southern root, head home to defend their States. The fleet commanded and manned by Northern sailors stays loyal to the Federal cause. ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=US Fort attacker=Confederates defender=Union @THEN justonce TEXT ^^FORT SUMTER TAKEN! ^Rebel batteries around Charleston Harbor open fire on the Federal garrison of Ft. Sumter forcing them to surrender. In response President Lincoln calls for 75,000 volunteers to "still the insurrection in South Carolina". The Civil War has begun... ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=2 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=CS Fort veteran=yes homecity=Charleston locations 75,71 endlocations @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=Slaves attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN TEXT ^Federal troops free the slaves they encounter as they march through the South. Freed slaves respond by enlisting in newly formed "Colored Regiments" of the Federal Army. ENDTEXT CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Black Regiment veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 84,12 endlocations @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=Ram attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN JUSTONCE TEXT ^^RAM CSS ATLANTA DESTROYED IN BATTLE WITH FEDERAL VESSELS ^The Confederate Rams seemed invincible when the CSS Virginia first was seen at Hampton Roads, but the appearance of the better armored and more maneuvrable Federal monitors, showed it's weakeness. ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF CITYTAKEN city=Richmond attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN JUSTONCE TEXT ^^RICHMOND FALLS TO THE FEDERALS! ^After a long and bitter siege the Confederate Capital falls in the hands of the Union Army. Jefferson Davis and his Government flee into the deep South but vows to continue the struggle for freedom. ^Retreating Confederate units regroup outside the city in an effort to retake it. ENDTEXT CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=Sharpshooters veteran=yes homecity=none locations 74,52 74,54 72,54 70,52 endlocations @ENDIF @IF CITYTAKEN city=Richmond attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN JUSTONCE CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=CSA Cavalry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 72,54 74,52 70,52 74,54 endlocations @ENDIF @IF CITYTAKEN city=Richmond attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN JUSTONCE CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=CSA Infantry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 74,52 74,72 72,54 endlocations @ENDIF @IF CITYTAKEN city=Richmond attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN JUSTONCE CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=CSA Infantry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 74,52 70,52 72,54 endlocations @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=Clipper attacker=Confederates defender=Union @THEN TEXT ^^CONFEDERATE RAIDER CAPTURES UNION MERCHANT VESSEL ^A Confederate Raider captures a Union clipper at sea. After seizing cargo worth $200,000 the Confederates burn the captured Federal ship. ENDTEXT CHANGEMONEY receiver=Confederates amount=200 @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=CSS Alabama attacker=Union defender=Confederates @THEN TEXT ^^CSS ALABAMA SUNK BY USS KEARSAGE ^The infamous Confederate Raider CSS Alabama is cornered by the Federal steam sloop, USS Kearsage, in the port of Cherbourg, France. In the ensuing engagement the US warship sinks the Confederate ship. Captain Semmes and most of his crew are rescued by a British yacht and escape captivity. ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=8 @THEN TEXT ^November 1861: Already legendary General "Stonewall" Jackson takes command of the Confederate forces in the Shenandoah valley. ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=8 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=CSA General veteran=yes homecity=none locations 65,45 67,43 68,40 66,40 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=10 @THEN TEXT ^January 1862: David G. Farragut is given command of the Union blockade fleet. He makes the steam warship USS Hartford his flagship. ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=10 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=USS Hartford veteran=yes homecity=none locations 76,28 79,19 84,12 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=13 @THEN TEXT ^April 1862: Ulysses S. Grant turns a near defeat into victory at Shiloh, Tennessee. The battle is so bloody that members of the Federal government call for Grant's removal. Lincoln replies: "I can't spare this man... He fights" ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=13 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Ulysses S. Grant veteran=yes homecity=none locations 48,52 49,49 48,54 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=16 @THEN TEXT ^July 1862: Robert Lee succeeds Jo Johnston as Commander of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia. ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=16 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=Robert E. Lee veteran=yes homecity=none locations 72,56 70,52 73,51 73,45 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=17 @THEN TEXT ^^CSS ALABAMA JOINS THE CONFEDERATE NAVY ^Captain Semmes takes command of the CSS Alabama. This will be the fastest, most dangerous raider in the Confederate fleet Every Federal merchant ship in the Atlantic is in danger! ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=17 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=CSS Alabama veteran=yes homecity=none locations 133,5 70,84 83,55 73,71 76,64 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=29 @THEN TEXT ^August 1863: Both North and South make use of the new helium balloons as artillery observation platforms. This is the first airborne war in history. ENDTEXT CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Obsv. Balloon veteran=yes homecity=none locations 64,16 55,5 36,8 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=29 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Obsv. Balloon veteran=yes homecity=none locations 55,5 64,16 36,8 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=29 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Obsv. Balloon veteran=yes homecity=none locations 36,8 55,5 64,16 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=29 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=Obsv. Balloon veteran=yes homecity=none locations 62,70 48,68 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=29 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Confederates unit=Obsv. Balloon veteran=yes homecity=none locations 48,68 62,70 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN TEXT ^March 1864: As President Lincoln promotes General Grant to Commander-in-Chief of the Army of the Potomac, his second in command, William Tecumseh Sherman, takes over the Federal Army in the West and begins his march towards the sea. ENDTEXT CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US General veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 46,72 44,70 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Field artillery veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 46,72 44,70 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Infantry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 46,72 44,70 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Infantry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 46,72 44,70 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=Field artillery veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 44,70 46,72 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Infantry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 44,70 46,72 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Infantry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 44,70 46,72 endlocations @ENDIF @IF TURN turn=36 @THEN CREATEUNIT owner=Union unit=US Cavalry veteran=yes homecity=none locations 112,32 44,70 46,72 endlocations @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=Ulysses S. Grant attacker=anybody defender=Union @THEN TEXT ^^GENERAL GRANT KILLED IN BATTLE ^The greatest Union General falls to a Confederate bullet. The North mourns, the South rejoices...What will become of the Union without it's greatest champion? ENDTEXT @ENDIF @IF UNITKILLED unit=Robert E. Lee attacker=anybody defender=Confederates @THEN TEXT ^^GENERAL LEE KILLED IN BATTLE ^The beloved Confederate General falls to a Federal Minié ball. The South mourns, the North rejoices...What will become of Virginia now that her favorite son is no longer? ENDTEXT @ENDIF @ENDEVENTS

In other words, how are you (or anyone making Civ3 scenarios now) going to approximate any of these events?

(Sorry for the length, I wanted to include the complete events file so you can see all the different types of events that can be used. FWIW, some of the newer Civ2 scenarios include more elaborate and clever use of events, more than what you see here.)

	21-07-2002 13:14									#8
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Steve,

You know CTP2 had even scripting language far advanced compared that in Civ2.
But CTP2 was rushed, had bad AI and after that had no Activision support.

Still many people know how to fill the hole.
But others have just given up.

Civ3 is still game in Progress.
That means that bad things can become better.

And you now what?

That events language you pasted was NOT in vanilla Civ2.
It was added in first Civ2 XP: CiC.

Now you have expected that kind of thing is PATCH?

in PATCH?

Do you even have idea how much time is needed just for THAT?

And there had so much more basic things to add in editor.
Like placings starting postitions, cities or units.

They added them.

Still, it's inferior to Civ2 vanilla.
Still it is needed a way to change year increments, add some simple objecive system, and to add dilpomacy.


But for diplomacy there is workaround.
Edited saved games by some custom made utility program.

As for lacking objecives, Domination should serve for most basic scenraios.

And for year increments?
Ugh! For that we should wait for PtW.

And maybe some even scriping would be added in PtW or some other add on?
At least in is in their wish list.



P.S.
Current status of editor is good enough for making unhistoric, but enjoyable scenarios.
It's pity that some people can't see that.

	21-07-2002 20:29									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Firaxis didn't have time to include anything else. They would have, if they could have, but I'm not going to worry about that.

Anyways, I'm having a problem with the editor (again, a new one).
What happened was that all of my infantry unit graphics (while in the editor) suddenly changed over to cavalry unit graphics. I thought, okay... that's weird. Next time I tried to run the scenario, all the units had been deleted.

	22-07-2002 04:51									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

player1: I am aware of Civ2's iterative history, however, I was under the assumption that they wouldn't have to completely reinvent the wheel for Civ3 scenarios. Events were the final icing on the cake for Civ2 scenarios and when it came to designing Civ3, they seem to have not remembered the cake, let alone the icing. How can events (or their like) be considered an afterthought because the fans are demanding it when all they had to do was to remember Civ2:FW/MGE?

Six months ago, I predicited that scenarios along with their editor will be released in an expansion, just like with Civ2. So if they come in PtW, then the prediction will come true. It's just that with the hype and silent 'wish listing', I have not been sure that Firaxis really knows what it would take to provide a full, robust scenario editor (which is what they had promised).

Trip: Here's my confusion. Firaxis announced a couple of months ago that an editor would be coming out in June/July that will allow users to make scenarios. Then Thunderfall announced at civfanatics that we can now make real scenarios. The caveats seem to be that there are no events/scripts, no diplomacy editing, no turn length editing, no objectives and that any such scenarios will be 'unhistorical'. So tell me, how are you expecting a Civil War scenario (which I have a good deal of interest in) to play out?

	22-07-2002 05:08									#11
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Steve: The reason that events were an afterthought is because they had to make you able to place units first. Unfortunately, there's only so much that one guy can do in two months with an editor.

In re: to my scenario. There are two sides: Union and Confederate. A human and an AI. Therefore, the human player declares war on the AI on turn 1. The two sides fight to oblivion. No problem there (unless of course the human is stupid enough to play a building game instead ).

And it'll be released in a few days... I'm done with everything, I just need to finish testing it for bugs. You can find the link in my sig.

	22-07-2002 13:11									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Steve: What to say?
Make a wish, wait for PtW, and hopefully you'll get more complete scenario editor.


P.S.
But you still can make interesting things with this one too.

	22-07-2002 21:45									#13
	Got spare money?

The game came with a rules editor and partial map editor, this one is a rules and map editor with a partial scenario editor, PTW will have a full rules map and scenario editor and maybe events.

Is there a way to make it so each civ (not player) starts with different units without making a map?

	22-07-2002 22:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Level The game came with a rules editor and partial map editor, this one is a rules and map editor with a partial scenario editor, PTW will have a full rules map and scenario editor and maybe events. Is there a way to make it so each civ (not player) starts with different units without making a map?

Go to files forum, download New Earth scenario and look how it is done.

	24-07-2002 15:02									#15
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The Natural Resources tab help has Improvements and Wonders help instead.

	24-07-2002 15:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer The Natural Resources tab help has Improvements and Wonders help instead.

I've seen this bug too.

	27-07-2002 07:01									#17
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i just downlaoded the new patch and went in to create a scenario and the city and unit brush types are grayed out so i go searching around thinking there might be an option to turn it on and look at every single option in the entire editor, read the whole help file, and the readme and nothing tells me how to enable the unit and city buttons. is this a glitch or am i just stupid
HELP PLEASE!!!!

	27-07-2002 08:51									#18
	Map editor shrinks BIC files! Full PM-box? Change here!

Whenever I load a BIC file and save it, the file shrinks in size by almost 90%. This happens whether or not I make any modifications and whether or not I replace the original file or save it as a different file. I tested this on Firaxis' stock standard Earth map, Norm's Europe (still need more resources, Norm), and Kitten of Chaos' huge Earth map.

One wonders what is getting lost in the process. While playing on a modified Kitten map I discovered that the rate of barbarian generation rose astronomically - about 900 barb horsemen scattered about Indonesia, Australia, and South America by 200 AD. (Didn't count the barb galleys and warriors.) Never saw this happen under 1.17f.

	27-07-2002 17:18									#19
	Put an end to popups!

Simple.

From 1.29f BIC are now compressed.

	30-07-2002 08:12									#20
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quote: i just downlaoded the new patch and went in to create a scenario and the city and unit brush types are grayed out so i go searching around thinking there might be an option to turn it on and look at every single option in the entire editor, read the whole help file, and the readme and nothing tells me how to enable the unit and city buttons. is this a glitch or am i just stupid

Chubbs, I just went through this trauma myself, being a newb and all. Click "Map" --> "Set Active Player...", select which player, and voila -- there you go. Only took me an hour to figure it out

	31-07-2002 19:26									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm not sure if this is just a problem with the editor or something in the game itself. I just noticed it yesterday, and haven't had a chance to test it.

Anyway, when I was looking at Improvements and Wonders in the rules, I noticed that several of the buildings had what appeared to be incorrect settings for the golden age related Other Characteristics options. Ie. the ones that allow you to select what Civ-abilities a building might be related to for triggering GAs.

Here are a couple of random samples of what I mean:
The Colossus has Expansionist, Religious and Commercial selected. Commerical I can understand. The other two I'm a bit confused about.

Copernicus's Observatory has Expansionist selected, instead of the Scientific selection that would seem to be more sensical. Yet, Newton's University and SETI Program, both of which do the exact same thing as CO are both selected on Scientific.

Iron Works is not selected on anything. I would have thought it would rate selection on Industrious. Same with Wall Street, not selected, yet Commercial would make sense. And most every other Small Wonder does have something selected.

There are a few other oddities, like regular city improvements with these options checkmarked, but those are the worst of the standouts that I saw.

	31-07-2002 19:42									#22
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Small wonders don't trigger GA.

	31-07-2002 20:31									#23
	Put an end to popups!

thanks, allbad01, i was about to go insane

	01-08-2002 00:34									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark I am aware of Civ2's iterative history, however, I was under the assumption that they wouldn't have to completely reinvent the wheel for Civ3 scenarios. Events were the final

Well here's where all these people complaining about the limited scenario capabilities are losing their perspective. Yes it says Civ III , but in alot of ways it's a brand new game, with all new requirements in order to make things work. I spent alot of time modding Civ II:ToT, and I'm now getting fairly proficient with this latest version.

And when I first started playing with the editor, I crashed the game constantly. It's a totally different approach to customization, and a lot of my approaches in Civ II had to be completely rethought.

But watching as the potentials have evolved with the various patches, I first got the game last November, I can see that in time, it's going to be an awesome game as far as customization is concerned! It took Civ II years to reach the point of being a good game in this way, but version III is already off to a healthy start in less than 1! Just imagine where it will be when it's been around as long as II was!

	06-08-2002 05:10									#25
	Put an end to popups!

Still, they'd better include all of the Civ2 scenario capabilities sometime.

	10-08-2002 14:31									#26
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Ahh.., that's that ****ing 1.29 **** again
If you started making the **** scen before you've installed that ****ing bullshit patch, start new.
If you started after and the problem still is there, forget the whole **** and say firaxis, their patch sucks.


What a ****ing, sucking, licking bullshit sucking patch

	11-08-2002 02:24									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I haven't done much modding at all unitl 1.29, but I have quite a few problems:

1. When my civ built the Forbidden Palace, the game crashed due to an error with the Wonder Splash. I haven't done any editing at all with this particular wonder.

2. A tie-in with the first error, in my build list, all of my buildings have the wrong icons: the FP is a SAM battery, the Harbour is a University and the Harbour is a Mass Transit. This may have caused the first error as well, but again, I have made very little changes to these City-Improvements.
However, I have delted virtually all non-Ancient Wonders and City-Improvements.

3. Also similar, when I change unit graphics, the change does not take effect. I gave Swordsmen the Immortal graphics, but they remained the same.

	15-08-2002 09:46									#28
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Firaxis, please enable a toggle in the official editor to make a map "flat" (without wraparound). It's fundamental to making scenarios that don't cover a whole planet, and the "mountains on the map edges" jury rigging is lame. I know about Gramphos's excellent work, but this is something *so basic* that it should be in the official editor. PLEASE!!!!!!

	17-08-2002 12:17									#29
	Support Apolyton

Totally agree that flat world is a MUST for scenario building! Pleaseeeeeee, Firaxis... do something quickly about it!
I spent half-hour searching through the Editor for the Flat/Round toggle but alas there were none! The msg in the forum confirms my worst fear!

	20-08-2002 20:12									#30
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Andrew_Jay I haven't done much modding at all unitl 1.29, but I have quite a few problems: 1. When my civ built the Forbidden Palace, the game crashed due to an error with the Wonder Splash. I haven't done any editing at all with this particular wonder. 2. A tie-in with the first error, in my build list, all of my buildings have the wrong icons: the FP is a SAM battery, the Harbour is a University and the Harbour is a Mass Transit. This may have caused the first error as well, but again, I have made very little changes to these City-Improvements. However, I have delted virtually all non-Ancient Wonders and City-Improvements.

If you remove any inprovment you need to check the PedaIcons.txt (not sure of name) and make sure all are corect.

quote: 3. Also similar, when I change unit graphics, the change does not take effect. I gave Swordsmen the Immortal graphics, but they remained the same.

Changing the Icon in the editor will only change the build list icon, to change the graphics you need to edit the INI file in the units folder, you can have it point to another unit by adding ..\unit name\ before the animation or sound.