19-07-2002 19:47									#1
	We Need a Think Tank for Diplomacy Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Fellow Apolytonians, I have a suggestion. We need a think tank, to encourage and focus discussion and analysis about our foreign relations. I envision something like the War Academy, but this one devoted to matters of state.

My suggestion grows out of long looks at the map that opened before us yesterday, and the flurry of threads it has inspired.

Given our start position, given the breadth of our continent (Abananaba?), given the various positions of our AI rivals, it's becoming more and more clear that we will not be able to simply conquer or build our way to victory. We will have to bargain at the table, and intrigue among the courts of our enemies and allies. Our very survival will hinge on our ability to play a dangerous diplomacy game with supreme skill and imagination.

(Reminds me of England, 1500-1945: an island power on the edge of a continent teeming with more powerful threats, constantly realigning itself, straining to preserve a balance of power.)

We need the best minds of our nation working on this aspect of the game. Techs and resources will remain vital, of course. But we need to weighing foreign policy moves with as much wisdom, as much audacity, as we do projects like tech-whoring or oscillating war.
Who should we be cultivating, what techs or resources or gold should we be gifting where, to strengthen which allies when? With whom should we ally in what wars? When should we permit ROPs, and (later) with whom should we strike MPPs? These answers to these questions will shift continually in the centuries ahead. And we desperately need to find the right answers.

We should set up a think tank to give analysis and debate form. I don't know what to call it, I don't presume to have enough experience to run it (a la Sir Ralph in the War Academy). I just know we need it.

What do you think?

	19-07-2002 19:54									#2
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Ah, Baron, you could easily run it...You have shown that much by posting here. Just let others submit their expertise (and that is most certainly not me, I only normally play standard size maps due to my comp, this is allot more diplomacy than I am used to...)

	19-07-2002 19:58									#3
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It is obvious we will need a cunning diplomacy to win. I would like to participate to such a think tank, being pretty able in diplomacy myself (in Civ3, not in real life ).

Currently, I think we should build embassies with every nearby Civilization once the war with America is over : it will allow us much flexibility to make Right of Passages, which will improve foreigners' stance towards us. This way, they'll be more likely to ally with us rather than against us in the war against France.

I think we should officially ally with Civs who are pretty far from France (say Germany or Persia), to avoid the Greeks capturing French cities instead of us.

I'll support trade with our have-to-be friends as soon as possible, because they enhance our realtionship with them. If we are to make gifts to the AI, I'll also suggest giving gpts, which are very efficient to make a partner happy.

Edit : also, a very important point is reputation. We can't allow to hurt our reputation in any way. If we do this, we'll have much lessflexibility in trading, and the AI will be spontaneously annoyed towards us, rather than cautious / polite. It will also be less likely to ally with us, knowing we are traitors.

	19-07-2002 20:28									#4
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Its a pretty good idea that you got Robber Baron, proposing analysing the effect of our relationships with others and what their objective should be. Personally I believe that keeping on good terms with the Astecs is important, but far more important is to keep our closest neighbours from getting involved in our invasion of America and France. Other words, keep a close eye on those two.

I would want to be a part of this process, but Robber Baron has unjustly excluded me. Making it a requirement to join being one of the best minds of Apolyton.

	19-07-2002 20:43									#5
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This new think tank could be called a dozen names:

The Council on Foreign Relations, for example.

Or perhaps something else. Anyway, it does sound like a good idea, to have a organization devoted to examining diplomacy and trying to create the best atmosphere possible for Apolytonia.

	19-07-2002 21:07									#6
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Papa Chubby,

Dont worry about the best minds of Apolytonia, you are evidently one of them. I suppose that the worst intelligences are artificial.

	19-07-2002 21:12									#7
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Good idea Robber....perhaps you can call it

Forign Affairs Think Tank: Basic Analysis Now And Never Applied

or

FATT BANANA

	19-07-2002 21:13									#8
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Davout beat me to it, Papa. Don't worry, I'm sure we will be able to sneak you in.

	19-07-2002 21:19									#9
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quote: Originally posted by jdjdjd FATT BANANA

Or, "Brave Apolytonia Nervously Awaits Nuclear Armageddon"

	19-07-2002 21:35									#10
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As a beginning, I suggest that the Think Tank establish a doctrine of use (as head quarters do for military forces and armaments) for the tools that can be used by the government. For instance, the ROP is certainly not to be agreed upon in all cases a civ is willing to subscribe.

From this doctrine, the minister in charge of the foreign relations could derive (before even any contact) a statement of our attitude toward every civ : we are willing that and that, we are opened to that and that, we would refuse that and that. Binded together, those statements (the Yellow Book) would be referred to easily when required, and updated when necessary.

Last edited by DAVOUT on 19-07-2002 at 21:51

	19-07-2002 21:43									#11
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Davout: A Yellow Book sounds like an intriguing idea, very possibly a useful tool. And specific provisions or elements of doctrine could and would certainly be debated in the kind of forum I envision here.
But I do not see the think tank as a government body. It's more like the War Academy, in that it provides a forum for analysis and discussion, not decision. Decision happens at the level of the democracy itself (people voting in polls), and is implemented by the president advised by his/her ministers.

(As you can tell, I have been very impressed with the impact the WA has had on our discussion of military tactics -- which has by and large been wonderfully open and democratic, at the same time as the thinking behind it has been rigorous and imaginative.)

	19-07-2002 21:50									#12
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I agree, the TT establish the doctrine, and the Minister who is the Gouvernment makes the Yellow Book based on the doctrine.

	20-07-2002 01:13									#13
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As president, i only ask one thing:

if the think-tank has to make decisions that would directly concern making deals and such in a turnchat.. PLEASE make sure your deals are finnalised before the turnchats begin, rather than starting the think-tank as soon as the turnchat is under way.

This thing can speed up the deals process.. i suggest you get Sn00py's attention

	20-07-2002 03:33									#14
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It sounds like there's some interest here. If you want to join, leave word here. I can put together a membership thread when I get back to my computer on Sunday. (Going camping. Radical: real life )

We still need a name. Council on Foreign Relations (Donal's idea) sounds kinda kewl. But does it sound too governmental?

Maybe something like the Foreign Relations Forum?
The Metternich Institute?

I dunno. Leave more suggestions.

Peace (or war, as the case may be),
Baron

	20-07-2002 04:10									#15
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I love the Metternich institute. What about the Machiavelli Institute ?

	20-07-2002 05:22									#16
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Count me in. I am not great at this business, but I do have ideas.

If an idea is bad, it still opens new lines of thought... *best excuse ever*

And I think Machiavelli Institute works best. Metternich was a balance of power guy. Big Mac was a 'my power. Not your power' guy. And I have read the Prince, so I know

	20-07-2002 10:22									#17
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Count me in too Robber Barron. Though I'll be gone until monday, so no diplomatic help from me until then. One thing though, EVERY turn check EVERY other civ to see if they have workers for sale(this only happens if workers happen to be in their capital). They cost in the 25-30 gold range. Actually this sounds like a job for public works minister, so keep him on his toes during the chat. You never know, we might get an army of worker even before the war.
Aggie

	22-07-2002 03:33									#18
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Count me in.

Spiffor has made some good points about our relations with other civs, and our reputation.

	22-07-2002 21:34									#19
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To join the Machiavelli Institute, go here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=56563
All members welcome, of all persuastions.