21-07-2002 21:56									#61
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No they support terroist. They always agree with paltinian terrorist when making "peace". If israel were oil-owner, they would support us but without it they support terrorist. Did you know about some independent investigation? Do you know who sale oil? The same people who pay terrorist. A lot of countries bought Bin-Ladan's oil. Petrol-money is the source of problem.

	21-07-2002 21:59									#62
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Our "Great Wall" made obsolete by discovery of metulurgy

	21-07-2002 22:01									#63
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No they don't agree with palestinian terrorists. You're just talking BS.

	21-07-2002 22:14									#64
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Kroptkin, ty na chej botinok bulku kroshish?
Terrorists get money from GOVERMENTS off oil-exporters countries. Bin-Ladan was (is) one of the main figures of oil-mafia and got money from europe.

	21-07-2002 22:22									#65
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Bin Ladin is the son of a wealthy builder, if he or any other got money from selling oil that does not make the palestinian terrorists supported by the EU or UN. You're just talking a lot of conspiracy BS.

	21-07-2002 22:46									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Blatant violation of the Geneva Convention.

And suicide bombing isn't?

quote: Anyone who still thinks Israel is the "good guy" in this conflict, must be totally insane.

Reading the Hamas web site again, eh?

quote: Apartheid laws to prevents Muslims from buying land in Israel, a wall around Israel so that a number of Palestinians can't get to or from work or family, and now this. It's sick.

In your opinion, but you live in nice, safe Holland.

	21-07-2002 22:59									#67
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"In your opinion, but you live in nice, safe Holland."

Given Dinodoc's recent post in Euthanasia in the Netherlands, I wouldn't be so sure about Holland being nice and safe.

	21-07-2002 23:00									#68
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quote: Apartheid laws to prevents Muslims from buying land in Israel, a wall around Israel so that a number of Palestinians can't get to or from work or family, and now this. It's sick.

Froup punishement aside. There is nothing wrong with a state controling it's borders. If the wall was to prevent people from leaving, like the Berlin Wall, I could see a reason to object. However this will prevent illegal aliens from entering the country to cause harm to Israeli citizens thus it makes perfect sense.

Palistinians have no more a right to work in Israel then Mexicans have to work in the US or Morrocans in Spain or Chinese in Japan. States have every right to control their boarders.

	21-07-2002 23:02									#69
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The only chance of modern world to survive is COMPLETELY DESTROY islam fanatics. Make this religion normal. People from Israel, Russia, India, USA will agree with me.

	21-07-2002 23:34									#70
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This thread topic is made obsolete by the fact that the families threatened to appeal to an Israeli High court of justice , a court that deals with cases in which the government offends the citizen. The decision was cancelled.

btw , Froghorse , I don't think that this is on one scale with judiciary rape.

	21-07-2002 23:44									#71
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Terrorist families get money from Bin-Ladan, Sadam Husein, Arafat etc. Israel must confiscate and spend it to heal injouried and help families of killed.
Dalgetti, a ty davno v izraile?

	21-07-2002 23:55									#72
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OCHEN davno.

	22-07-2002 00:05									#73
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Az tizdaen besavlanut. (Vooruzhis' terpeniem)

	22-07-2002 00:05									#74
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Pochti vse izrailtyane tut s rosiyi.

	22-07-2002 00:07									#75
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It always goes so. See www.israel-forum.org .

	22-07-2002 00:27									#76
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Sorry, cant write in Russian.

	22-07-2002 01:04									#77
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It's about time Israel employed a policy like this.

Guilt by association? You bet it is, and it should be. Maybe mommy and daddy will be a little less inclined to strap dynamite to their kids' bodies.

	22-07-2002 02:46									#78
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quote: I did think about that, Lefty, but my understanding is that the prepartations are generally not made in the homes of the suicide bombers. This would tip off the family that their kid is about to kill him or herself. And despite the "pride" that is displayed for the "martyrs" most people don't want their children committing suicide even to get at the enemy.

Sorry, it's bull.

The tapes of one of the last suicide bombers showed his mother blessing him, holding his gun for him and saying "I hope you kill as much jews as you can when you die, become a good martyr".

Plus, all the accidents that happen in martyr's homes in which people are injured, prove they make it at home.

	22-07-2002 03:05									#79
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muxec - privet.
ya gulat poshol, teba propustil.


on topic:

1) there are no laws barring muslims from leasing (land can't be bought in israel, by anyone) state lands, unless they are lands already owned by jewish agency (sorta private body)
2) what's wrong with having a ****ing border? since when is the mexican US border is illegal? aren't you parrots tired of repeating palestinian propoganda?
3) families which are crime participants should be punished. plus it's a counter blow to the 25K $ they get. Doesn't look so sweet now, eh?
4) che- sure, israel must do everything to make itself likeable. you know, the police force has alot to learn from it. If it would leave hot cocoa around and free cash, there would be no robbing and stealing, and the criminals would like the police more.

	22-07-2002 03:14									#80
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quote: disregarding apolyton law #2234 : "Every Middle East thread post made by Saint Marcus is a troll " , I'd like to ask you, what's wrong with that? "a wall around Israel so that a number of Palestinians can't get to or from work or family, and now this" If they'll have a country , this is exactly what will happen.

Funny that you only comment on one of my three remarks.

Also, you must no there is no Palestine country. You must also know the wall seperate the Jewish people from the Palestinian people in Greater Israel.

	22-07-2002 03:39									#81
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov 4) che- sure, israel must do everything to make itself likeable. you know, the police force has alot to learn from it. If it would leave hot cocoa around and free cash, there would be no robbing and stealing, and the criminals would like the police more.

You are absolutely right Sirotnikov. How could one even go as far as thinking about committing a crime while he's holding a cup of hot cocoa in one hand and a handful of cash in the other?

Seriously now, there's nothing Israel can do to make itself more likeable by the Palestinians, because there's always one force or another that drives Palestinians to hate Israel.
A hundred years ago it was Xenophobia that made the Palestinians act with hostility towards the new arriving jews and frequently harass their towns. With the founding of the state of Israel it was a feeling of defeat and lost honor that made the Palestinians reject jews and Israel. I believe around the '70s things have changed in the way that it was now a force of rising nationality that drove the Palestinians away from accepting Israel.
Finally, with the founding of the PA, the Palestinians' national struggle was kept alive by Arafat and his supporters because they needed to use Israel as a scapegoat to blame for all the trouble and the pain that the Palestinian people have been through, and they knew that as soon as a true, honest and stable peace was established the Palestinian people would turn their attention to the PA and demand it to function as a normal and responsible government, which it couldn't because it is inherently corrupt, and sonner or later (most likely sooner) it would being to rapidly lose popularity. When it tries to hold its position by force, the Palestinian people would rebel and the PA territories would be thrown into civil unrest and anarchy (yes, just like on Civ ).

Fortunately, the process described above has already begun. Many of the Palestinian people are trying to rid themselves of this tyrrant. Unfortunately, many others still seek a national hero to unite behind and see Arafat as their national hero. From time to time we hear about gunfights between different factions in the PA, some of which even went on in Arafat's headquarters.
I have hopes that Arafat's regime will fall and a new sensible and responsible Palestinian leadership will arise, but the way it seems from here this is not going to happen, as the Hamas is very popular in the Gaza strip. However, only time will tell...

Edit- fixed a spelling mistake.

	22-07-2002 03:46									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Also, you must no there is no Palestine country. You must also know the wall seperate the Jewish people from the Palestinian people in Greater Israel.

The details behind the border control arrangements are very unclear but already you assume that Israeli Palestinians will be separated from west bank Palestinians.
In my opinion, the Israeli government will allow Palestinians with work permits or any other kind of permit to cross the wall once it is completed. I see no reason why a Palestinian mother who lives in Israel and wants to pay a visit to her children who live in the Gaza strip shouldn't be allowed to do so, just as long as she passes security inspections in the checkpoints within the wall (just like immigrants do when entering/leaving the US, for example).

Edit- fixed a grammatical error.

	22-07-2002 04:14									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I think they should get a state on 1967 borders. Basically the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip territories.

I agree, and so do many other Israelies, though not as much these days because of the rise in suicide bombings. I'd bet though that if the Palestinians stopped their hostility then the public opinion in Israel would change, just like it did in '93.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui However, I will say that Palestinians in Israel have no right to use bombings, because they are part of a democratic society and have a voice in it. Only those who are occupied can resort to violence to gain a voice.

I absolutely agree. However, I'm afraid that not all Israeli Palestinians share the trust we have in the Israeli democratic system and prefer to aid terror organizations from the territories by means of collecting intelligence, transporting suicide bombers, planting bombs near kindergartens and on railroad tracks (luckily no one was physically hurt in any of the cases referred to) and so on.
Perhaps you can convince them...

	22-07-2002 06:42									#84
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What Israel ought to consider is a offer to all Palestinians living inside Palestine the opportunity to become Israeli citizens. They ought to require it of everyone who wants to work inside Israel.