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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
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Israel's New Plan - Punish the families Inflate your Upload Space

Israel Arrests Attackers' Relatives

Jul 19, 11:34 AM (ET)

By MARK LAVIE

JERUSALEM (AP) - Israeli soldiers arrested 16 relatives of two Palestinians suspected in bloody terror attacks this week, and, in what would be a new policy, officials Friday were considering expelling some of the men to the Gaza Strip.

Israel Radio said expulsion of the fathers and brothers reflect new harsh measures the Israeli government is considering to deter potential attackers. Israeli soldiers also destroyed the family homes of the two suspected Palestinian militants.

In a statement, the militant group Hamas threatened to launch "unique martyrdom operations," if the deportations are carried out, a reference to suicide attacks.

The two attacks, a bus ambush in the West Bank and a double suicide bombing in Tel Aviv, were the first fatal strikes against Israeli civilians since Israeli forces moved into seven of the eight main Palestinian towns and cities in the West Bank on June 20, after back-to-back suicide bombings in Jerusalem.

A woman injured in the bus ambush near an Israeli settlement in the West Bank on Tuesday, Yocheved Ben-Hanan, 21, died in Tel Aviv hospital Thursday, police said, bringing the death toll to nine. Three bystanders, including two foreign workers, were killed in the double suicide bombing in Tel Aviv on Wednesday.

A new group affiliated with Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement called Al-Nazir, "the warning" in Arabic, claimed responsibility for the Tel Aviv bombing, identifying the bombers as Mohammed Attala, 18, and Ibrahim Najie, 19, from the Balata refugee camp, next to Nablus.

Overnight, Israeli forces moved into the Askar refugee camp and the nearby village of Tel, near Nablus, the military and residents said.

In Tel, soldiers destroyed the house of Nasser Aseida, 26, a leader of the Hamas military wing who was suspected of organizing the bus ambush. Soldiers arrested his father and four brothers, and detained relatives of two other wanted Hamas leaders, who are in hiding, like Aseida.

In a similar operation in the Askar refugee camp, soldiers destroyed the house of a leader of the Fatah-linked Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades militia, Ali Ajouri, 23, badly damaging several nearby houses, residents said. Soldiers arrested Ajouri's father and two brothers, they said. Ajouri was not captured.

Altogether, the Israelis detained 16 men, Palestinians said. In a statement, the military said the operation was "part of the war against the terrorist infrastructure."

A senior Israeli official said the government was awaiting final recommendations from Attorney General Elyakim Rubinstein - expected within a few days - on whether deporting the 16 men to Gaza was legal.

Rubinstein initially recommended that there were legal grounds for "selective deportation to Gaza" for those people "directly involved in supporting" the militants, the official added.

If Rubinstein approves and the Cabinet determines deportations would be an effective deterrent, the government would proceed, the official said on condition of anonymity.

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, a veteran peace campaigner who supports talks with the Palestinians, said he would support the new measures if they win legal approval.

Palestinian Cabinet Minister Saeb Erekat denounced the deportation idea as a war crime and violation of the fourth Geneva Convention, which governs the treatment of civilians in war zones.

"When nations in the year 2002 decide on collective punishment, and decide to deport (families) from one place to another, this is a war crime, and we will pursue it as such," he said.

The Israeli human rights group Betselem said the Geneva Conventions banned forced deportations and said such collective punishment "will constitute an unerasable moral blight on the state of Israel."

Israel used the deportation tactic quite often in the 1980s, but largely held off until it sent 26 militants to the Gaza Strip in May to end a standoff at Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity.

The most famous deportation occurred in December 1982 when the government expelled about 415 men associated with Hamas and Islamic Jihad to southern Lebanon after a wave of attacks.

They eventually returned, with many using the bomb-making skills learned from the militant Hezbollah group to attack Israelis.

Ranya Ajouri, a relative of Ali, said Israeli soldiers ordered the families out of the three-story house without giving them a chance to put on clothes or shoes. Told about the possibility that the men would be sent to Gaza, she said, "We have no relation to Ali's activities. Everyone should be responsible for his own behavior."

While the army did not say how many people were detained in connection with the attacks, it said it had arrested 16 militants in sweeps of other villages across the West Bank on Friday for alleged "terrorist activities."

Palestinian officials say they are powerless to assume control because Israeli forces have imposed curfews in the main areas, preventing Palestinian security from operating.

On Friday, the Israeli military said it was lifting curfews in the towns of Qalqiliya and Tulkarem "until further notice," and in Jenin and Hebron during the day Friday. The Israelis have said they would ease restrictions in the Palestinian towns they control if calm is maintained.

Also Friday, Palestinian police shot and killed the driver for an imam, or preacher, who has criticized the Palestinian Authority, according to witnesses in the Maghazi refugee camp south of Gaza City.

The imam, Ahmed Hijazi, who also is a member of Islamic Jihad, sped away from police after Friday prayers. The driver was killed in the ensuing gunfire while Hijazi ran away, witnesses said.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Totally wrong, of course.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:15
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Ouch... this is REALLY guilt by association!

Kyle is offline Kyle
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:19
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Yes, this is much more wrong than killing anyone who's Israeli because of what the Israeli Government does.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:22
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"Yes, this is much more wrong than killing anyone who's Israeli because of what the Israeli Government does."

No, the sucide bombings are worse, but this act of what Israel is doing is also wrong.

Kyle is offline Kyle
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:25
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Yes, I know. Israel is almost doing the same thing the Palestinians are doing, except instead of murdering the people, they may just deport them.


Just getting the basic troll out of the way.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:26
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Seems like the immigration of jews from the former soviet unions seems to make an impact, Israel is starting to make stalinist laws.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:27
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Debate the issue not the person .

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Kropotkin
Seems like the immigration of jews from the former soviet unions seems to make an impact, Israel is starting to make stalinist laws.




Kyle: Now there is a proper troll!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:31
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It's going to make the Palestinians like the Israeli government that much more. How smart.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:31
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Thank you for noticing

Kyle is offline Kyle
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui




Kyle: Now there is a proper troll!


Yes, I'm still new at it.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:36
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Or consider that the home were likely used to prepare and stage a crimminal attack (under many cirstances the use of property including home to further criminal acts wouold result in there being seized and forfited to the state in many jurisdictions, under a streamlined civil procedure with much less procedure that a criminal trial), and the persons expelled were entirely cogniscent and approving of the crimminal slaugher and its preperations and allowed their home to be used without protest (which in many jurisdictions would result in crimminal trial and long prsion terms for them). In the USA (and most of Europe, excepting the death penalty part) the home would likely be forfit to the state and all the adults and teenagers therin would be in jail charged as accessories and facing charges with life imprisonment or death penalty. While in most case in the USA (but not so in Europe where are more extensive duties to report crimes, crimanal prepertions, and prevent them) the is rerely a duty on a citizen to take prevent crimes, you may not allow your property toused in furtherance of such acts, and any material support for one will likely land you in the dock.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It's going to make the Palestinians like the Israeli government that much more. How smart.


Exactly what would make the Palistinians like Israel?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:41
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To treat them like human beings for one.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I did think about that, Lefty, but my understanding is that the prepartations are generally not made in the homes of the suicide bombers. This would tip off the family that their kid is about to kill him or herself. And despite the "pride" that is displayed for the "martyrs" most people don't want their children committing suicide even to get at the enemy.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
To treat them like human beings for one.


Is that all?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:43
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Actually, that probably would go a massive way to making the Palestinians like the Israelis much more.

Carver is offline Carver
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber


Exactly what would make the Palistinians like Israel?


Israel halting its continuing theft of Palestinian land.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:46
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A better question for you Imran is exactly how far do you support the Pal?

Do you just support their goal of a state?

Do you support their control of all land from the Jordan river to the sea?

How far does your support go? To what extreme do you think they should goal. How many dead isrealies is too much for you.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:49
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I think they should get a state on 1967 borders. Basically the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip territories.

As to what extreme, that is up to them, I guess. However, I will say that Palestinians in Israel have no right to use bombings, because they are part of a democratic society and have a voice in it. Only those who are occupied can resort to violence to gain a voice.

Sava is offline Sava
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I say good , maybe that will act as a deterent.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber


Exactly what would make the Palistinians like Israel?


Israel's annhilation...

Eli is offline Eli
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:53
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Finally.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I think they should get a state on 1967 borders. Basically the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip territories.

As to what extreme, that is up to them, I guess. However, I will say that Palestinians in Israel have no right to use bombings, because they are part of a democratic society and have a voice in it. Only those who are occupied can resort to violence to gain a voice.



Lets say that Isreal withdrew to those borders today and did not reenter them. do you think that the viloence will stop? Do you think that Hamas and those like them be satisfied. If they aren't, Would Isreal be justified in attacking the Pals then?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 21:56
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quote:
maybe that will act as a deterent.




It'll just make them just as angry and lead to same, if not more, suicide bombings. I mean, this is like a bad movie, where you are always saying, "No, don't do that... don't you know that is the dumb thing!". Only thing is, this isn't a movie, and the idiot is a country named Israel.

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  Old Post 19-07-2002 22:02
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I mean, this is like a bad movie, where you are always saying, "No, don't do that... don't you know that is the dumb thing!". Only thing is, this isn't a movie, and the idiot is a country named Israel. [/QUOTE]

Not a bad movie, just a bad TV show.

quote:
Jerusalem (SatireWire.com) — Sources on the set of "Israel," history's longest-running drama, say irascible stars Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat angrily walked off the set today, complaining that the show's scriptwriters continually make their characters say and do stupid things.


"I'm supposed to be the Prime Minister of a country that's embroiled in this terrible conflict, where diplomacy and tact and wisdom should be important, but you people always have me playing this great pompous prat!" Sharon reportedly shouted before throwing his script on the ground and storming off to his trailer.

"I swear, if you hacks have me bulldozing one more Palestinian village, or making one more asinine, inflammatory comment, I'm filing a complaint with Actors Equity," he added.

Arafat was allegedly no less piqued at the way recent treatments have depicted the gruff, unlovable Palestinian chief he portrays.

"A few seasons ago, my character was an influential creep, but now the script calls for everyone, even my own people, to treat me like a neutered creep," grumbled Arafat as he sulked off to the small tent he's allowed to occupy on the remote outskirts of the set. "I'm starting to think they want to write me out of the series for next season."

While the show's producers insisted the temperamental stars were simply overwrought due to a tight production schedule, television critics said they too have found themselves wincing at times, particularly over Sharon's lines.

"It's like in a horror movie, when one of the characters is about to do something dumb like open a closet door or look under the bed, and you're watching and you want to scream, 'No, don't do it!'" said Los Angeles Times TV critic James Boldini. "Well, that's what they've done with the Sharon character. You're watching and you say, 'Oh God, don't say that!' But he always does."

"That's OK when it's Just Shoot Me or Married with Children, but this is supposed to be a reality-based drama," Boldini added.

Boldini also said the writing on the show has "definitely gone downhill" since the popular Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat were in the cast.

"A perfect example is that episode a couple of weeks back, when Sharon says he wished he had killed Arafat 20 years ago," he said. "I mean, c'mon, why would a head of state publicly say something so incendiary and stupid? He just wouldn't."

Viewers also expressed dissapointment. Peter Curlimo of Chicago rolled his eyes over a "particularly absurd" January installment.

"In previous episodes, they had set it up so Arafat has this great opportunity to make the world feel sorry for his people's cause and maybe put pressure on Israel, right?" said Curlimo. "But then they have his character blow it by secretly buying a big old arms shipment from Iran so he comes off looking like a total lying, conniving jerk."

"It's a basic rule of fiction," Curlimo added. "You have to make at least one of the main characters, if not likable, then at least a sympathetic figure. You'd think these writers would know that."


In the drama America, the character of George Bush is allowed to grow. Here he is in an early episode, speaking on a phone with no cord.
According to agent Lenny Waldman, who represents both Sharon and Arafat, the show's staff is also making a mistake by not letting the two characters evolve. Israel's writers, Waldman said, should take their cue from "America: The Series".

"The cool thing about America is they let the actors grow into the roles," Waldman said. "Like the George W. Bush character. Remember how early in the season he started out really bumbling, but then they let his character develop until, in that one climactic scene, the whole U.S. Senate officially declares him no longer goofy? Now that is compelling television."

According to Waldman, both Sharon and Arafat have announced they want their characters re-written before they will return. Israel, head writer Kent Loring, however, insisted it couldn't be done.

"What are we supposed to do, have Sharon suddenly turn around and say 'OK, let's try to work something out and make peace?'" Loring asked. "Or I'm gonna have Arafat suddenly do what he promises to do? That would be totally out of character and no one would believe it."

Loring denied rumors that in the season finale, Sharon will turn out to be Arafat's long-lost brother. However, he did say the final episode would be "explosive" and "definitely a can't miss."

But if "Israel" continues on the self-destructive path the writers seem bent on, the question in many viewers' minds is, "Will there be anyone left on the set to watch?"

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 19-07-2002 22:09
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CG, Are you aware, CG, that coercion and threats against families are/were used by all communist countries to intimidate those who have escaped to the West? In other words, you CG, a declared communist, have no legitimate right to complain about Israel's new policy on terrorists families.

TheBirdMan is offline TheBirdMan
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Why does the israelies not wipe them (the partisans/terrorists AND their families AND all other in the villages the partisans/terrorists came from) to death and then behead them all?

The romans did that to their enemies some 2000 years ago (I am just reading the books about the roman family by Colleen McCullough) and I do not see much difference in the way Israel/palestine and Rome/Italic tribes regards/regarded each others.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ned, you are aware I'm not a Stalinist, and that real communism is punishable by death in most "Communist" countries?

 
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