20-07-2002 07:18									#1
	Amendment: Removal of E-Mail Distribution Clause Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Amendment II: Removal of E-Mail Clause

Based on this poll: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=54577

Paragraph two, under article one section two, shall be removed:

quote: Once the turns are played the president shall send out the save game file via e-mail only to all the members of his cabinet and any Apolytonia member who specially request it. The Historian and Reporter must receive saves from the end of each turnchat.

To be replaced by this:

quote: Once the turns are played, the president shall publicly post the save game file for all members of Apolytonia to download.

	20-07-2002 07:20									#2
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I believe we can skip all debate on this, im switching it as of immediately for no further confusion.

	20-07-2002 07:29									#3
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Good call Prez Ninot. No need for debate here, just do it.

	20-07-2002 07:33									#4
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I think that was even in effect while Trip was president.

	20-07-2002 07:44									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It was, but the constitution was never *actually* changed by him.

So now we will correct it.

	20-07-2002 09:10									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'll go along with this, but I'm kinda skiddish of just changing the Constitution, even though this is super minor and the clause has been pretty much ignored since day one. I just hope this doesn't need to happen again, so that it won't become habit. I would actually prefer if we leave the Constitution as it was and just go along doing what we've been doing, just posting the saves. But whatever.

Kman

	20-07-2002 09:23									#7
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FORWARNING!!! I speak here not as a neutral editor of the Jungle Gazette, but as a citizen.

quote: Originally posted by Ninot I believe we can skip all debate on this, im switching it as of immediately for no further confusion.

Debate may, perhaps, be unreasonable here, but each President arbitrarily changing things to how they see without folowing a vote is an atrocity no matter how minor! Is this how you propose to run your office? Without the peoples consent?

An amedment is NOT editing the original document, it is an ADDITION that changes the original meaning. Look at the US(sorry for that, really) where there is the prohibition still in there, but it was later repealed. It is important to show how things progressed.

For that matter, why was the original post removed? How are we now to track that there were no changes made? I didn't memorize the thing. Later Presidents could have simply ammended by replying to the original thread, thus preserving the document for all.

I am really beyond words here.

	20-07-2002 09:37									#8
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k.. im gonna do the official ammendment thing then, no worries.

	20-07-2002 11:23									#9
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx

Calm down and go look at the first post. You will see a link to where the vote was held.

	20-07-2002 11:26									#10
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Timeline, this is all part of the other debate. I am opposed to deleting and changing the Constitution, as you know by now, but I made a more concise and thoughtfull argument elsewhere.

	20-07-2002 16:17									#11
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Yeah go ahead and ammend it so its nice and "legal", but I can't see anyone voting against it

	20-07-2002 17:21									#12
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Although whether we should delete and change is still being debated, we should be default add because we can always go back and change.

	20-07-2002 17:48									#13
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In this case we are not doing anything new, just updating our Constitution to what has been common practice. If you're going to nitpick, then why not cry foul about the fact that what was stated in the Constitution:

quote: Once the turns are played the president shall send out the save game file via e-mail only to all the members of his cabinet and any Apolytonia member who specially request it. The Historian and Reporter must receive saves from the end of each turnchat.

was not followed through. In my eyes, there is just as much cause for complaining about this than there is for not immediately updating this out-of-practice part of the Constitution.

Which is, of course, silly. I challenge anyone to complain that what the ppl wanted - ie no email distribution, rather a post of the save as an attachment - is worthy of a serious complaint.

If you don't want to change the Constitution in future, then by all means go to

this thread and vote. But I implore everyone to not oppose such a small change that brings our Constitution in line with current practice!

/rant off - Sorry if I seem forceful - I'm in a weird mood. I hope my point comes across.

	20-07-2002 20:02									#14
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This was already voted upon, but the change should be added at the end like an amendment. At least till the current debate is over. In fact, Ninot already did just that. If people choose to alter the original document, so be it.

Personally, I am beginning to see you point of view, MrWIA, we should not have written the thing in the first place. So much attention could have been better served in ways to get out of the stinking Jungle.

	20-07-2002 20:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Personally, I am beginning to see you point of view, MrWIA, we should not have written the thing in the first place. So much attention could have been better served in ways to get out of the stinking Jungle.

[edit: for some reason, it just wiped out my reply when I hit submit... anyways, I've rewritten it]

The Code of Laws was supported by the gneral public with more than 2/3 support. That it should later be populary thought of as a Constitution is another story... but whatever.

I don't think the attention could have better served in getting us out of jungle. Just because we don't have a COL to distract us, wouldn't necessarily make us more involved in jungle strategies. Having the COL adds levels and depth to the game, enriching just as roleplay does. It helps get more people involved that wouldn't otherwise. Personally, I enjoy the forum apsect of the game more than the ingame part. If jungle strategies was all that was important, then why not just take the save games and see who can do the best? But that's not what it's about for all of us. For me, my favourite part is the discussion and debate about ideas of government structure, laws, courts, elections, citizen rights, etc... Not that I don't particpate in things like the war academy either, but that's the beauty of this demogame, there's something for everyone. And if there isn't, start it up!



---

And as for the original subject, we were effectively doing it anways, so officially changing (amending) it makes sense.

	20-07-2002 20:56									#16
	Remove this text

nm

Last edited by Timeline on 21-07-2002 at 06:29

	20-07-2002 21:50									#17
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Code of Laws... Constitution... it's all semantics, what's the difference? No, I do not want someone with legal education to tell me - the point is that it is the same thing here - a set of rules we go by.

IIRC in the days it was written up and voted on it was referred to as the Constitution, and AFAIC you can call it what you like - everyone knows what it is. But, as you say Captain, whatever.

	21-07-2002 07:05									#18
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quote: Sorry if I seem forceful - I'm in a weird mood. I hope my point comes across.

Yeah, crack will do that to you...

As for the code 'o laws, I have to agree with captain, it adds a whole other dimension of almost political role playing. I like the debating myself, it lets me feel the virtues of democracy first hand, cause at the end of a debate, the best solution to any problem is almost always found.

Kman

	21-07-2002 07:16									#19
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quote: Personally, I am beginning to see you point of view, MrWIA, we should not have written the thing in the first place. So much attention could have been better served in ways to get out of the stinking Jungle.

We usually have between 48 and 72 hours between turnchats, right?

If we didn't have all of this stuff to waste our time with, do you honestly think we'd be spending our time figuring out ways out of our problems? Just imagine people from around the world, co-operatively thinking 72 hours at a time on our situation. I just can't see it happening.

As it is, im sure there are many of us here who would not be here if it were simply just a couple of guys sharing duties on playing a game of civ. The constitution, elections, and general time-wasting fun is what we are all here for.. no reason in downplaying it, its the truth.
If you were to eliminate it, you would simply allow people to do more in their day then stick around the forums. You wouldnt be sending them into 72 hours of think-tanks on our situation. Thats ridiculous.

	21-07-2002 07:33									#20
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I hope no mod sees this... it's tantamount to admitting all we do here is spam!

	21-07-2002 07:40									#21
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quote: If you were to eliminate it, you would simply allow people to do more in their day then stick around the forums. You wouldnt be sending them into 72 hours of think-tanks on our situation. Thats ridiculous.

Perhaps the code 'o laws isn't that great. now that you mention it, I have been spending alot of time on this forum lately. My skin was strating to go from its pale white hue to a pale yellow one. Is that normal? Maybe I have hepititus... I can say if it were not for the politics, I would spend only a few minutes here a day, at most.

Kman

And no, MrWIA, we do not spam here, every single one of our posts are important, every one of them. Just like my next post

	21-07-2002 07:42									#22
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If you call this spam, then I have yet to see a good, normal post