22-07-2002 00:49									#91
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Why do you think that, Fez?

	22-07-2002 00:52									#92
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Because I just do.

	22-07-2002 00:53									#93
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I see. You are a very emotional boy, Fez. I don't think you'd make a very good politician, or diplomat.

	22-07-2002 00:54									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I see. You are a very emotional boy, Fez. I don't think you'd make a very good politician, or diplomat.

Me an emotional boy? I am not emotional just stubborn...

No you are wrong. I would make a great politican.

	22-07-2002 00:58									#95
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Of course you would, Fez, of course you would.

You're nowhere near being overemotional, and you're a very rational person who knows how to express his opinions.

	22-07-2002 01:00									#96
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Actually I think you are partially right, considering my age... I must be a bit vivid in saying my descriptions... sometimes a bit too vivid... must be hormones or something... I guess....

	22-07-2002 01:15									#97
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Fez, you're not helping your case by blatantly lying.

	22-07-2002 01:16									#98
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quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Fez, you're not helping your case by blatantly lying.

Lying about what? ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY?

	22-07-2002 01:24									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Fez So? Why the **** would I want to follow some obviously fixed tests? I wouldn't.

There's a start for you.

	22-07-2002 01:26									#100
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quote: Originally posted by JohnIII There's a start for you.

	22-07-2002 01:52									#101
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

On a different note, building my last computer has scarred me for life, but you can only notice that if you look at my index and middle fingers on my right hand (lousy, sharp Chinese computer parts).

	22-07-2002 03:08									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I wonder if you have any concept of the AMD and Intel history... There's a reason why corporations buy Intel even if AMD may be faster and cheaper: "Nobody ever got fired for buying Intel".

you've used that saying out of context Ash, (and you probally know that) that quote was being bandied about when major corporate contracts for mainframe and mini computers were being contested in the 80's and (to a lesser extent the 90's). It's has nothing to so with the current intel/AMD squabbles.

the difference is that the mainframe/mini's were incompatable with other systems, so if you chose to go with a company that may go bust in 6 months or didn't support their product, you'd were in trouble, thats why traditionally Intel have been able to charge premium rates to comapanies. I don't see that buyers of personnel computers need have such worries when buying AMD?

	22-07-2002 03:11									#103
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But corporations tend to. AMD keeps consistently posting losses even though they have pretty good hardware, while Intel keeps posting a profit. Which do you think will be around longer? Intel's also about 6x the size of AMD.

Then there's the issue of most investors/corporations thinking Sanders is a complete flake.

Intel is usually renowned for its compatability and stability, something AMD has always struggled with and is just in recent years been about on par with Intel. Intel's proven background goes a long way with them.

Of course this isn't really relevant with "personal" computers, but I'm just showing him that it's AMD that generally has the "garbage" reputation while Intel has long been associated with "quality", not vice versa.

	22-07-2002 03:21									#104
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I think that AMD was better for a while in the past

I am not sure who is better now (my current machine is AMD, I built it about a year ago)

but I will say this, most institutions and governmental agencies buy intel

I think at times they were foolish (like when I bought mine) but they do

they buy it for reasons Asher has stated

that is the same reason they buy IBM (go to a governmental agency, there are IBM machines eevrywhere)

Jon Miller

	22-07-2002 03:23									#105
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cool;O) still a naughty quote though, eh?;o)

The IT manager where I work buys Intel and i don't blame him, it's not his money and it's a safe bet. but AMD are very tempting for personnal users. Intel are always going to struggle to keep their price down as they effectivly fund a good percentage of AMD's R&D, but what does Joe Bloggs care when he's on a budget?

	22-07-2002 03:23									#106
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Asher you are babbling off again... all your opinion....

And most institutions and governmental agencies buy intel? Am I missing something? The State Department certainly does not.

	22-07-2002 03:26									#107
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A lot of them just don't want to deal with the problems like if the fans failed.

It's the little things like Intel's built-in protection against CPU overheating that can put them over the edge compared with AMD.

Corporations look at this feature list, see Intel as being pricier but having more reliability features, and as well as the proven background.
They look at AMD, they see an incomplete safety feature list, they see a spotty track record and an unstable company financially.

And a lot of times, AMDs aren't even cheaper. Intel gives big, big discounts to major OEMs and organizations who buy their chips, AMD doesn't do so. They basically sell the major OEMs the prices for the same prices as they do the consumer on the street. That's why the "enthusiasts" are so happy with AMD.

	22-07-2002 03:27									#108
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fez, no offence the 'best of the best' these days is Intel, now the question the most 'bang for your buck' is arguable, but if monies no object......

	22-07-2002 03:28									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Asher you are babbling off again... all your opinion.... And most institutions and governmental agencies buy intel? Am I missing something? The State Department certainly does not.

Look at stuff like ASCI Red -- these are billion dollar+ supercomputers. They're done by people like Intel and IBM, not AMD. AMD's just not "up there" in reliability, at least reputation wise.

And yeah, most institutions and government agencies buy Intel. Look around.

I know one specific oil giant in particular which just replaced all 60,000 of their desktop computers in the world (P2 266s) with Pentium 4 1.8s.

Not AMD.

	22-07-2002 03:28									#110
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Intel this, Intel that. Wrongo. The State Department has moved to AMD in the past few years... AMD is cheaper for them....

Asher quite bullshiting and stop this nonsense.

	22-07-2002 03:31									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Intel this, Intel that. Wrongo. The State Department has moved to AMD in the past few years... AMD is cheaper for them.... Asher quite bullshiting and stop this nonsense.

I would urge you to go look at the financial reports for AMD and Intel.

Look at the huge slice of the market Intel gets from corporations and OEMs. Compare that to AMD's.

AMD gets most of their money from the small-time computer companies and enthusiasts, people who benefit from their low pricing. OEMs and giant organizations already get that low pricing from Intel.

Why do you think Microsoft cut AMD out of the Xbox deal and replaced them with Intel?

	22-07-2002 03:33									#112
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*takes a few sleeping pills*

"I am sick and tired of this babbling"

	22-07-2002 03:36									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Why do you think Microsoft cut AMD out of the Xbox deal and replaced them with Intel?

i'd always wondered that, they could have cut $50 off the retail price, i'd assumed it was a heating problem (ie the Xbox being sandwiched inbetween the VCR and the sattelite reciever with bad ventilation)

	22-07-2002 03:39									#114
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Intel undercut AMD on pricing, and won out on heating concern, as there was less liability associated with it.

Not only could they get away with a mere heatsink on a Pentium III, but they could reduce the risk of fire (or anything of that sort) due to the Pentium III's built in overheating protection.

It also helped that Intel has far better assembly lines (AMD can't seem to figure out how to get to 0.13 properly) with more capacity.

	22-07-2002 03:41									#115
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BTW, the Pentium III chip in the Xbox cost $29 per box for MS to buy.

Pretty amazing, isn't it? It was one of the cheapest components of the thing.

The price will drop further once they switch from 0.18 to 0.13 and shrink it down.

	22-07-2002 03:55									#116
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Cheap as in crap? Just kidding Asher... I am kinda tired so I won't harass you about intel anymore....

	22-07-2002 05:21									#117
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I've created a monster.

	22-07-2002 05:44									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I've created a monster.

My thoughts: Be poor, buy AMD!