21-07-2002 02:39									#1
	Computers: Build or Buy? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've owned and used several computers, 2 Compaqs, an HP and a Pionex, and I just built a new one. I am MUCH happier with it, and I want to know how everyone else likes theirs. I have a 1.3 Ghz AMD, 256 DDR RAM, Geforce4 64 mb vid card and a 50x cd drive, and I'm using Windows XP.

These are roughly the same specs as my Compaq, although my Compaq lacked a real video and sound card, and it had SDRAM instead of DDR.

	21-07-2002 02:44									#2
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Depends who you buy it from.

You'll almost always save money building your own computer, providing nothing goes horribly wrong with it.

I build computers at work for people, and I'm sure they're far happier with those than they would be if they built it themselves. But it's not like this is a major OEM computer like Compaq or Dell or HP.

	21-07-2002 03:26									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I built mine. The only computers I would consider buying are those from companies like Falcon and AlienWare. They not only use all the best components (which I do) but they get all the right drivers and get everything working (which I don't).

	21-07-2002 03:56									#4
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Hmm... building is not always cheaper. It really isn't if you haven't got the time to look for the parts (which was the case last time I built a computer), but it certainly gives you the ultimate in customization, which you can't get from a bought computer. Not only that, but it helps you know stuff about computer that allows you to upgrade it instead of buying a new computer.

	21-07-2002 05:19									#5
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A little of both - I bought my computer from a 'clone' shop, and have since upgraded it so much that it is nearly a new computer. I'll probably just keep upgrading it a bit at a time instead of buying a new one... atleast, for the forseeable future.

	21-07-2002 05:29									#6
	Got spare money?

I build with the best of the best. I don't ever, I mean ever skimp on a part. I buy the best I can with the money I am allowed to spend. I buy the best. Building is always cheaper then buying a full computer... sometimes it may seem more but that is because companies like Dell and HPQ pack a bunch of crappy pieces into their machines.

The first computer my dad bought for me was built at a small computer store when I used to live in San Diego.

	21-07-2002 05:52									#7
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If you built with the best of the best, why did you build with an AMD?
What brand of RAM did you use?
What motherboard make & chipsets?

	21-07-2002 05:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If you built with the best of the best, why did you build with an AMD?

Because AMD is quality, and I wouldn't to spend my money on crap, now would I?

quote: What brand of RAM did you use?

Kingston and Samsung.

quote: What motherboard make & chipsets?

KT-333 I am sure and Gigabyte.

	21-07-2002 05:58									#9
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I prefer building it myself. Having more control over what goes into it is important. And I don't want to be paying for a package whose price is bumped up because of bundled software I'm not even going to use.

	21-07-2002 05:59									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Because AMD is quality, and I wouldn't to spend my money on crap, now would I?

AMD is not quality, AMD is cheap.
They have only 256K of L2 cache (this will matter more in upcoming games), they have only a 266MHz system bus, they're capable of frying themselves quite easily.

Intel is faster and better quality, it's just considerably more expensive. Intel is the best of the best.

quote: KT-333 I am sure and Gigabyte.

So you got a KT333 board without CPU Overheating Protection. I hope that doesn't matter much to you.

My Athlon XP system is also a KT333 board, but the Asus A7V333. It's more exensive than the Gigabyte, but it's the best of the best.

	21-07-2002 06:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Asher AMD is not quality, AMD is cheap.

AMD IS QUALITY. Because I say so.

quote: They have only 256K of L2 cache (this will matter more in upcoming games), they have only a 266MHz system bus, they're capable of frying themselves quite easily.

You are just biased in favor of Intel, well wake up and smell the coffee I am not. You cannot do **** about that.

quote: Intel is faster and better quality, it's just considerably more expensive. Intel is the best of the best.

Intel sucks for me. I don't like it. And quick pushing me the hell around, I am not in the good mood.

quote: So you got a KT333 board without CPU Overheating Protection. I hope that doesn't matter much to you.

How do you know I didn't you smart arse?

quote: My Athlon XP system is also a KT333 board, but the Asus A7V333. It's more exensive than the Gigabyte, but it's the best of the best.

Gigabyte is a hell lot better.

Quick being a smart ass and leave me the heck alone.

	21-07-2002 06:03									#12
	Put an end to popups!

Helllooooo, somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed.

Fez, look, I build high end computers. AMD is cheap, Intel is the best of the best.

Performance wise, feature wise, reliability wise. The only area where AMD has the upper hand is cost, which doesn't really concern people buying the best of the best, does it?

quote: How do you know I didn't you smart arse?

Because the Gigabyte boards don't come with COP, that's how I know.

quote: Gigabyte is a hell lot better.

Better as in cheaper, yes.
Better as in better, no.

	21-07-2002 06:05									#13
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Look. I am not in the mood for this. I just had a nail go up right in my foot.

AMD is the best because I damn well please to say so you cannot do crap about what I say.

Performance wise my arse, feature wise my arse, reliability wise my arse.

You are wrong about Gigabyte boards. They have the best quality and performance out of all boards and have been rated to most reliable.

	21-07-2002 06:06									#14
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quote: Better as in cheaper, yes. Better as in better, no.

WRONGO.

Better as in better, hell yes. Better performance and better reliability. I went through three ASUS, one Soyo, two Leadteks, three Shuttles.... and am still have been using this Gigabyte with no problems...

BTW, you are wrong about me... I have been building dozens of computers for people returning favors.

	21-07-2002 06:07									#15
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Okie Gianny, you're the boss.

What the hell do I know, anyway, I can't compete with your Aregentinian know-how.

	21-07-2002 06:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Okie Gianny, you're the boss.

A nail through the foot is not a good feeling.... luckily it wasn't too large... sorry, I am in a bad mood because of that...

quote: What the hell do I know, anyway, I can't compete with your Aregentinian know-how.

I am not Argentine. Absolutely not. Now you are starting to piss me off big time.

	21-07-2002 06:14									#17
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I'm just a bit biased against Gigabyte since I've dealt with at least two of their KT333 boards being fried due to the CPU melting down on it, and I've yet to see an Asus have that problem (mainly because the hardware shuts off the CPU if it begins to overheat).

	21-07-2002 06:17									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm just a bit biased against Gigabyte since I've dealt with at least two of their KT333 boards being fried due to the CPU melting down on it,

Well I haven't. Infact I already have built six computers for six other people that have included the gigabyte board and none have come back to me with problems.

quote: and I've yet to see an Asus have that problem (mainly because the hardware shuts off the CPU if it begins to overheat).

Odd thing is I went through three Asus. Two were KT-266As, one was a KT-333. They all failed.

	21-07-2002 06:19									#19
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That's extremely odd, Fez. One might say you were molesting the board, or lying.

First off, if you had the problem with the board why would you buy another of the same brand?
Second, Asus is usually renowned for its quality, and from what I've seen at work (and at home), it's well deserved. Their boards consistently perform well, pack all of the good features, and have excellent board layouts, as well as their known reliability.

Gigabyte is regarded as "Asus' little brother" because they try so hard, but every time they come up just a little bit short.

BTW, define "failed" for me.

	21-07-2002 06:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's extremely odd, Fez. One might say you were molesting the board, or lying.

No I am not lying.

quote: First off, if you had the problem with the board why would you buy another of the same brand?

Because I was pretty dumb in thinking it would change. I did that with Shuttles... thinking... hey it could only get better.... ouch, was I wrong.

quote: Second, Asus is usually renowned for its quality, and from what I've seen at work (and at home),

Well not for me.

quote: Their boards consistently perform well, pack all of the good features, and have excellent board layouts, as well as their known reliability.

And that is basically my explanation of gigabyte.

quote: Gigabyte is regarded as "Asus' little brother" because they try so hard, but every time they come up just a little bit short.

I strongly and bitterly disagree. It is the other way around.

quote: BTW, define "failed" for me.

Two stopped working... literally the monitor wouldn't turned on and the other just had too many conflicts with devices.

	21-07-2002 06:24									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Fez And that is basically my explanation of gigabyte.

But Asus has been around for far longer than gigabyte, and has the reputation Gigabyte can only dream of...

quote: Two stopped working... literally the monitor wouldn't turned on and the other just had too many conflicts with devices.

I don't know what to tell you.
Perhaps you should be playing the lottery.

Or maybe the problem existed between the keyboard and the chair, or perhaps in your head...

	21-07-2002 06:26									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asher But Asus has been around for far longer than gigabyte, and has the reputation Gigabyte can only dream of...

No. Wrong. Gigabyte has the best repetition. I had two old Gigabytes... they were good but got outdated and I upgraded.

quote: I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you should be playing the lottery.

You are rude.

quote: Or maybe the problem existed between the keyboard and the chair, or perhaps in your head...

SHUT UP! JUST FOR ONCE. This thread is on a simple question I think has already been answered damn it:

YES I build my computer with what I think is the best. Not any other person can change my mind about what I think. I am a stubborn person and a so freaking glad I am.

	21-07-2002 06:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Fez No. Wrong. Gigabyte has the best repetition. I had two old Gigabytes... they were good but got outdated and I upgraded.

I don't think you comprehend.
It's not reputation in your little world, but in the tech community.
Go on any forum, HardOCP, Anand, DigitLife, AcesHardware, whatever -- they'll recommend Asus over Gigabyte 9 times out of 10.

quote: SHUT UP! JUST FOR ONCE. These thread is a simple question I think has already been answered damn it: YES I build my computer with what I think is the best. Not any other person can change my mind about what I think. I am a stubborn person and a so freaking glad I am.

If there's one thing about you, it's that you manage to convince yourself of anything and you stick with it -- at least for a couple of weeks.

	21-07-2002 06:29									#24
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Can anybody get me some ice for this foot?

http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboa...9/kt333-35.html

Not the greatest features but the best performance... even tomshardware, which I utterly despise says that.

Out of a total of 18 test candidates, the Gigabyte GA-7VRXP made the best impression: in all of the benchmark disciplines, this motherboard with the KT333 chipset ranks among the top performers.

	21-07-2002 06:33									#25
	Suffering from ads?

I will not buy Intel. I am not sure about quality and all of that as I am cannot fully grasp all of it. But all I know is my Athalon 733 is faster than my brother's Pentium 1 ghz. And that is a fact. Most of the other things are equal so from my experience and some of what I have read, Intel tends to inflate their numbers or at least have numbers that while they are bigger than AMD's are not half as good. But that is just my experience.

	21-07-2002 06:33									#26
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Tom's used a beta BIOS, check out Anand:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1636&p=6

quote: ASUS has been a favorite of ours for quite some time; their commitment to engineering excellence has given them a leg up on the competition when it comes to competency in board manufacturing.

quote: Continuing along with the elegance theme, ASUS is one of the first motherboard manufacturers to implement serious thermal protection on their Socket-A motherboards. The A7V333 reads from the Palomino/Thoroughbred's on-die thermal diode and can be set to automatically trigger a shutdown if the internal core temperature gets too high. Just as with the passive North Bridge cooling mentioned above, we'd like to see more motherboard manufacturers follow in ASUS' footsteps with this design.

quote: Our biggest complaint about the board is that Gigabyte has once again resorted to a BIOS setup without clock multiplier adjustments. They had done this in the past, but they finally started including it in some of their boards but once again it's been pulled out of the BIOS and is only available through dipswitches on the motherboard. Having the support is better than nothing, but it takes very little effort to offer the functionality in the BIOS like most other manufacturers. We hope that their next generation boards will offer this functionality.

If you look at the conclusion, the two best boards (in a tie) were Asus and MSI, Gigabyte in third.

Benchmarks are here: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1636&p=15

You'll see Asus is always on top of Gigabyte, but they're both good.

	21-07-2002 06:35									#27
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Asher: These tests all say different things... I don't trust any of them anymore... I just go with my own experience....

So with this settled, leave me alone. And don't turn try to turn this into a love-hate relationship because I don't like you.

	21-07-2002 06:36									#28
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by tniem I will not buy Intel. I am not sure about quality and all of that as I am cannot fully grasp all of it. But all I know is my Athalon 733 is faster than my brother's Pentium 1 ghz. And that is a fact. Most of the other things are equal so from my experience and some of what I have read, Intel tends to inflate their numbers or at least have numbers that while they are bigger than AMD's are not half as good. But that is just my experience.

I can safely say you don't know much about what you're talking about.

An Athlon 733 will not be faster than a Pentium 1GHz. It's faster than a P3 733, but a P3 800 and Athlon 733 are about even.

But that doesn't matter.

Nothing AMD makes comes close to beating a 2.53GHz Pentium 4.

As for "inflating numbers" -- Pentium 4's numbers are real MHz, AMD is the one with "model numbers" which are supposed to represent MHz. IE: A "2100" model Athlon runs at 1733MHz. Bear in mind that MHz != speed.

	21-07-2002 06:36									#29
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ASHER SHUT UP AND LET HIM CHOOSE.

	21-07-2002 06:37									#30
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He's free to choose what he wants, but once he starts spreading misinformation on a public forum I will correct him. Don't want him misinforming everyone.