23-07-2002 11:14									#1
	Mongols PBEM? Put an end to popups!

Would anyone be interested in a PBEM game of Harlan Thompson's classic Mongols v3 scenario?

I vaugely recall that this was tentativly put forward a while ago but got knocked back due to problems with the scenario - If someone reminds me what these problems were, I'd be willing to fiddle around with the scenario to fix them... [assuming that they are fix-able ]

Incidently, I call the Christians

	23-07-2002 13:22									#2
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One of my prefered scen!!!

Don't look any further for the Khwarizmians...

One thing that would be needed is to enable the civs t talk together!!

	24-07-2002 02:14									#3
	India Rulz Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yea, I'll play the Indians.

	24-07-2002 02:48									#4
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There aren't no native Americans in Asia, Stefan

As for that scenario, I find it's too full of units and details etc., too busy... but still, have fun each of you

	24-07-2002 11:47									#5
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I'll take the Sung Chinese

	24-07-2002 11:53									#6
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I would join, but I am in too many pbems allready ;o

	24-07-2002 22:05									#7
	Re: Mongols PBEM? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Case I vaugely recall that this was tentativly put forward a while ago but got knocked back due to problems with the scenario - If someone reminds me what these problems were, I'd be willing to fiddle around with the scenario to fix them... [assuming that they are fix-able ]

The main problem was that the scenario was biased against Mongols. Mongol player is unable to make any conquests against human opponent. Even Xin Yu refused to play them.

So, you need to make Mongols stronger if you want them to have a chance. My suggestion is: don't give them more units or better government but rise the attack of Mongol units ca 1,5 times. It should be enough for balancing the scenario for PBEM.

	25-07-2002 02:44									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just make their units cheaper.

	25-07-2002 02:49									#9
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I like your avatar icon, tech. Looks like a civ2 unit.

	25-07-2002 02:52									#10
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You mean Civ3? It is.

	25-07-2002 08:09									#11
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Thanks Cyrion, Marko and Tech - I'll enable negotiations, and make the Mongols units cheaper and a bit more powerfull [to make up for their fairly vunerable starting situation]. Does anyone else have some other sugestions?

The order of play is:

Mongols - techumseh
Chin / Kara Khitai - Civfan
Sung Chinese - Smaug
Indians - Stefan Härtel
Khwarizmians - Cyrion
Muslims - Marko
Christians - Case


edit: finalised player list.

Last edited by Case on 29-07-2002 at 05:11

	25-07-2002 08:55									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

It doesn't look like that boney2 pbem is going to come together, so I'm game for the Mongols.

	25-07-2002 10:42									#13
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What civ do you want?

	25-07-2002 10:51									#14
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the Mongols.

	25-07-2002 17:23									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Case Khwarizmians - Cyrion [Incidently, how do you prodounce 'Khwarizmian'?]

For the Mongols, it will be easy: just call us "Masters"!!


And about the change of cost/power for the mongol units: I agree IF we want them to do as well as they did in history!! As I don't want my Civ to be destroyed too early ( ), I would prefer the change not to be too drastic, so that the Civs closest to the Mongols can play for more than just a few turns...

	25-07-2002 17:34									#16
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quote: Indians - open

Let me repeat my statement:

quote: Yea, I'll play the Indians.

	25-07-2002 19:13									#17
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Getting a balance for the Mongols will be tricky. They shouldn't be able to overrun everything in sight, but if they don't have the power to expand significantly at first, they just won't be in the game.

Instead of changing the combat values of their units, why not just make mongol cavalry buildable, at 2/3s the cost. Right now it's only available by events. It's only slightly better than cavalry available to others such as armoured knights or mamaluks. And make the mongol light cavalry a bit cheaper too.

	26-07-2002 07:44									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sorry Stefan
I just realised that I missread Techumseh's original post and failed to realise that he picked the Mongols in it. I don't think that I had my brain switched on yesterday.

What I've done so far is:

*Removed all events preventing negotiations

*Increased Mongols units attack and defence stats by 25% and reduced their cost by 25% (rounded up)

*Added events to give Mongols smallish amounts of money [150-500] when they destroy fortifications [ie when they win a fight against a city]

*Gave mongols 3 extra spies + 1 scout + some extra infantry in their 3 biggest cities.

I like the sound of making Mongol Cav buildable. Should I reduce the regulatiry with which they get them via events?

There's still heaps of free event space, so if anyones got sugestions for new events please let me know

Last edited by Case on 26-07-2002 at 09:08

	26-07-2002 08:22									#19
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hello, I like to apply for the Chin part of this scenario. So whens this all starting

email is jmegill@learn.seneca.ca

	26-07-2002 09:00									#20
	Put an end to popups!

Here's version one of the mod - simply add it to your old Mongols version 3 files to make it work. There's a list of changes in the .zip.

Please note that in order to make the Mongol Cavalry buildable, I had to swap it with Gengis Khan. As a result, you'll need to either modify your own units file or use the one I've included in the zip [which dates from my 'renovation' of this scenario late last year]

Attachment: mongols_pbem v1.zip
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

Last edited by Case on 26-07-2002 at 09:35

	26-07-2002 09:06									#21
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quote: So whens this all starting?

I'm afraid that I'm going to be away this weekend [ ]so can we wait untill Monday? [Sunday American time]

This will also give us time to spot any bugs in what I've done and to find a Muslim player.

	26-07-2002 11:55									#22
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No problem for me to wait till Monday!! Enjoy your week-end in NSW!!

And just 1 small worry: from what I remember from when I played the scen (a looong time ago), the Khwarizmians have got some units in common with the Mongols! So wouldn't they be affected too by a change in the power and costs of those same units??

I wouldn't want an undue advantage over the other players...

But I'm not sure it's the case, so I'll try to check that this week-end!!

	28-07-2002 12:39									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yeah, the Khwarizmian's have light cavalry as well. I don't think that this is too big a problem as the Khwarizmians also have lots of better units, and I didn't beef up the light cavalry that much.


I did enjoy my weekend in Sydney - it's nice to be warm!

	28-07-2002 12:59									#24
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Case, I think it's the heavy cavalry which might be the problem. The Mongols really don't need it to be upgraded, if Mongol Cavalry can be built. But the Kwaza-madingles can also build it, and as upgraded, it is quite powerful.

On another note, I assume I'm supposed to start the game and pass it on, right? So, I start it on Prince and make it a Net game, right? And set a password? Strangely, it doesn't prompt you to do so. What settings should I use re: multiplayer options? Unlimited time? Anything else I should know?

I will wait until I hear from Case on the first point and from anyone on the second before taking my turn.

One final point. There is still a spot for the Muslims available. Who will step up and claim this vital, but currently unfashionable civilization?

	28-07-2002 13:11									#25
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I didn't upgrade the the heavy cavalry, so there's no problem there

Re the starting situation: Pick 'start new scenario' in the Multiplayer menu and load the new scenario file. Select only 'open game' and 'allow human players to chat from start' in the next menu, then in the next menu set unlimited time.

The password will only apply to the Mongols, so feel free to set one.

	29-07-2002 04:19									#26
	Got spare money?

If there isn't anybody else then I take the Muslims.

	29-07-2002 05:10									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

Welcome aboard Marko

	29-07-2002 05:37									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Case Welcome aboard Marko

Ditto that. Thanks for your help, Nick. I'll start my first turn tonight.

	29-07-2002 08:20									#29
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Genghis is finished his turn. A number of 'Chin have gone to their ancestors.

Attachment: 1211july.net
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	30-07-2002 09:26									#30
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A message arrives to the imperial palace from the Governor of Shangtu city.

June 15 1211
My emperor of the great Chin empire, we have news of a new power emerging from the steps of Mongolia. Many tribes are joining together under an able warrior. They call him khan. We ask for more troops near the great wall protecting the greart city of Shangtu. Your humble citizens are worried about this new leader emerging in Mongolia.
End of Message.

The Emperor thanks the messenger and signs him off. As he leaves the room, the Emperor asks himself the question so feared most. Do we have another enemy or ally?

Things haven't been great this last few decades. Famine, plague and rebellion have spread across the great Chin empire. Millions of people have perished and great riches have vanished. The emperor thinks a best course of action is to send scouts to mongolia.

A month passes


A message from Governor of Shangtu.

July 15 1211
An army from Mongolia has reached the gates of Shangtu. Please send troops.
End of Message

The emperor thinks the worse has happend, a new enemy. The emperor sends the messenger on his way.

The emperor calls his generals to a meeting. 'We have a new threat from Mongolia. Mobilize the armies, we will crush this leader they call Khan!'
The Generals salute the emperor and march out of the imperal palace. General Zhang is to lead the army at Mongolia.

July 28 1211

A soldier sends a message to General Zhang.
'My lord, the city of Shangtu has fallen. All women and children were executed. The men were enlisted into the barbarians army.'

General Zhang looks up into the sky. 'Its time to crush this barbarian.'

'Soldiers, March!'

Last edited by Civfan on 30-07-2002 at 10:09