23-07-2002 17:23									#1
	I have a bad feeling I'm going to be duped into buying this Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I just know I'm going to see it on the shelf at my local electronics store and say (Homer Simpson style) "MMMMMMmmmmmmmm, Civilization". And after I wipe the drool from my face, I'm going to buy it, get home, and curse it for not living up to my expectations just like Civ3.

Most of the features of PTW are things that should have been in the first game. And the thing that really chaps my ass is that the major flaws of Civ3 have yet to be addressed.

#1 No mini map in the map editor

Apparantly Firaxis didn't bother to test their editor to see how hard it is to make a map when you can't see the entire world. A zoom function like Civ 2 would be nice.

#2 Civil War

It was one of the best parts of Civ 1. Capture a capital city, and BLAAOUWW two civs... This was a great feature, and Firaxis, partly Microprose's fault for not putting it in Civ 2, didn't include it in Civ 3. IMO, they should have expanded the idea so that if there is a civil war, say you capture Babylon, the Babylonians split into two Babylonian Civs. That would add a new dimension to the game. And I believe something close to 90 percent of Apolytoners voted for Civil Wars in another thread.

	23-07-2002 17:34									#2
	Re: I have a bad feeling I'm going to be duped into buying this Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sava Most of the features of PTW are things that should have been in the first game. And the thing that really chaps my ass is that the major flaws of Civ3 have yet to be addressed. #1 No mini map in the map editor Apparantly Firaxis didn't bother to test their editor to see how hard it is to make a map when you can't see the entire world. A zoom function like Civ 2 would be nice.

FWIW this is available in the latest patch (v1.29f).

I agree that it was a baffling ommision from the first release, but at least they're giving it out for free now (albeit many months too late).

	23-07-2002 17:41									#3
	Re: I have a bad feeling I'm going to be duped into buying this Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sava #1 No mini map in the map editor

Hmmm....

There is a mini-map in editor.

You just need to get 1.29f patch.

	23-07-2002 17:46									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I just know I'm going to see it on the shelf at my local electronics store and say (Homer Simpson style) "MMMMMMmmmmmmmm, Civilization". And after I wipe the drool from my face, I'm going to buy it

you know why you're going to buy it? cause deep down in your mind(and your heart), the total money you've spent for civ games is nothing compared to the all the fun you've had. which means that the people responsible for this enjoyment deserve your $ even if PtW is not that great after all....

	23-07-2002 17:56									#5
	Support Apolyton

Ain't that the truth, Mark. I'll be in the store the first day.

	23-07-2002 18:25									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Ain't that the truth, Mark. I'll be in the store the first day.

Be sure to tell me about it. So I know whether to buy it soon or wait until after the holiday when the price will drop some.

	23-07-2002 18:29									#7
	Tired of ads?

i think i'll be suckered in, too. still irritated about the entire collector's tin bidness... so much so that even though i've heard great things about the war3 tin, i'm really loth to spend that much extra, which is a pity. (how come every other collector's tin seemed to be good? jk2, war3...pfeh)

but if it's true, and the koreans are in... i might just sink those thirty dollars to finally get a korean civ that i didn't have to mod in myself.

	24-07-2002 00:53									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i'm addicted to civ.

no matter how many thigs i can find wrong with it, no matter how many rants i scream at firaxis, i am obsessed with civ, and i play it all the time.

it's a great game. and even with all the things i could find wrong about it, there is so much that makes it great.

take note firaxis, i'll probably never say this again.

	24-07-2002 01:41									#9
	Remove this text

Aahh, the old "I won't be ripped of again" thread...

	24-07-2002 01:56									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

actually, it's the old "oh god, i'm going to be ripped again but what the hell" thread

	24-07-2002 04:32									#11
	Re: I have a bad feeling I'm going to be duped into buying this Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sava I just know I'm going to see it on the shelf at my local electronics store and say (Homer Simpson style) "MMMMMMmmmmmmmm, Civilization". And after I wipe the drool from my face, I'm going to buy it, get home, and curse it for not living up to my expectations just like Civ3. . .

Yes, and after you install it you will say. "D'Oh!!!!", just like I did after I got a look at Civ 3 last December.


I will NOT get it unless it has a Cheat Mode such as in Civ 2 to allow us to switch sides, control accelerated startups, etc.

Settler Diarrhea - their expansionist flood - must be slowed.

Privateers and subs must be able to damage an enemy civ's trade on his sea routes. Not being able to do that makes creating accurate WW I and WW II scenarios impossible as U-Boats almost won both wars.

Culture Flipping must be made sensible, if we can't already mod it out in the Editor (I'm not sure about that). When I have nine military units vanish when a town of '1' "flips" back we have absurdity.

We need to be able to control Diplomatic relations for scenarios.

One thing is certain: I will NEVER believe another review of an online Gaming site, not after their idiotic reviews in favor of a buggy messed-up Civ 3 back in December.

	24-07-2002 04:43									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I was repulsed by Civ3 at first too. But with the patches and by giving it countless chances, I have really begun to like the game.

I really expect the expansion to be no more than some new nifty little civs, and I think that 8 new civs for $29.99 plus tax is well worth it.

	24-07-2002 05:23									#13
	Remove this text

Coracle - do you actually play Civ3?

	24-07-2002 07:58									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

nice one zulu

	24-07-2002 08:36									#15
	Support Apolyton

I really want much much more from the expansion pack, which I highly doubt that I'm going to get. I was disappointed when I saw the first chat regarding the expansion pack for the simple fact that the programmers explained more about what WASN'T going to be in the pack than what WAS.

Nevertheless, I'm going to buy it for (as Dimorier Maximus put it) the "new nifty little civilizations" and also the AIRFIELDS! ... *grumbles* eight squares on an archipeligo map... sons of... ANYWAY, I don't feel like mass producing carriers for that purpose.

I don't expect that PtW will be anything other than cosmetics, so that's all I'm hoping to get from it. Anything else I get will be gravy to me.

	24-07-2002 16:14									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm caught between Scylla and Charybdis. I want PBEM and the new eye candy, but I dont want a useless "tin box" (not that I was foolish enough to buy one in the first place you understand).

	24-07-2002 16:32									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Don't make me smack you Markos

	24-07-2002 16:53									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Sava Don't make me smack you Markos

you saying that proves that i'm correct
you just cant accept the truth!

	24-07-2002 17:26									#19
	Support Apolyton

la la la I can't hear you, la la la

BTW I just downloaded 1.29f.... okay they finally got the minimap right.

I will replace that gripe with another.

new #1

The absence of some sort of realistic unit combat. For instance, units that can only engage air units (AA guns, flak, SAM trucks). Tanks can't engage air units, they are fighter fodder.

#2 remains

#3

Industry reliant production. A city size 1 with no industrial base cannot produce tank units in the real world. I want certain buildings to be necessary for certain units. Or at least some sort of minimum requirements for producing certain units.

#4

Non-player controlled trade. I would like to see some sort of simulation of trade routes. The resources trade (line of sight) across transportation is a good idea. Expand upon it and create some sort of automatic trade that takes place. Maybe it can take the place of trade being collected on tiles. That way, you can disrupt trade during a war which would affect luxuries, science and taxes.

	24-07-2002 18:19									#20
	Support Apolyton

Im not 100% sure if Im going to get ptw yet or not It would be a sure thing, but its competing with warcraft 3, never winter nights, master of orion 3, heroes of might and magic 4, and a new video card to replace my aging voodoo 5 pci so I can enjoy morrowind more All of which I want as much if not more than ptw. (and yeah I know heroes 4 has been out a bit and nwn is already out, I just havent had the cash to grab them yet)

On the other hand ptw will have the advantage of being the cheapest item on the list And hour of play to $ ratio, civ3 beats any game I own except moo2 easily (more like hour to cent ratio with those)

	24-07-2002 19:45									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

moo3 is looking a lot better. i don't know why the hell they wanted to include imperial focus points... pfeh. if they wanted to make it hard to control everything, they could have just made the damn game play in real time like eu.

but ptw will have to compete with kingdom hearts, ut2k3, and the next generation nvidia card....

	24-07-2002 21:58									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

when the first patch to fix ptw is released, that is when I'll buy the expansion.

zulu: cool smilie.

	24-07-2002 22:24									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

have they set a release date for PTW? and how is infogrames planning on stea-- selling it?

	24-07-2002 23:38									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think they're planning on releasing it in October/November, probably around the same time they released Civ3 last year. I'd expect that next month they'll start to release more specific information about it.

	29-07-2002 05:09									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Capture a capital city, and BLAAOUWW two civs... This was a great feature, and Firaxis, partly Microprose's fault for not putting it in Civ 2

This was in Civ 2.

If I recall, a civ may avoid the civil war if it had money and a particular government installed. However, if you captured the capital enough times . . . civil war.

	29-07-2002 15:53									#27
	Civil wars... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

IIRC, Civil Wars occured both in Civ1 and 2. However, I believe they were by far more common in Civ1.

	29-07-2002 16:10									#28
	Suffering from ads?

How about the Ability to buy food? i'd like to be able to do that!

and Settler Diarrhea, lol! haha!
and i want airfields too, tradable airfields that don't flip when they're in enemy/rival terrortory! So civs like America can have airfields in north Turkey so they can nuke Russia nad stuff like that!

Thats actualy a good idea for a scenario! Just sitting there watching America and Russia taking each other out!
General - "Sir, you can stop pressing the red button, we've wiped out Russia now!"
GWB - "WIPE OUT RUSSIA!? i just wanted Coffee!"

	29-07-2002 16:35									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

AFAIK, Turkey wasn't really a rival to the US. In civ-terms I'd say they had an Rights of Passage agreement.

Anyhow, perhaps airfield could be defended by ground units. Hence, if you occupy an airfiled in enemy territory, you could place your aircrafts there. Also, if a civ has airplanes in an airfield, occupying it with ground units would either destroy or capture the airplanes.

	30-07-2002 05:49									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Two other things re: PTW.

Conquistadors are a very POOR choice for a Spanish UU as they were never a military unit, just a small bunch of thugs murdering natives peoples and then each other.
It should have been the Tercio. But Firaxis cares about marketing, not history.
http://www.geocities.com/ao1617/TercioUK.html

There can be no such thing as an "historic scenario" with Culture Flipping and razing in the game. Just try it for, say, a World War Two scenario. . . with much of your armor vanishing in a flip.

So Firaxis either fixes these, and other problems, or no sale.

And I did not get $50 worth of fun out of Civ 3. On the contrary. But I got several hundred dollars worth of fun out of Civ 2.