24-07-2002 04:28									#1
	New iMacs Get Good Compliments and Superior Rating From PC Magazine Full PM-box? Change here!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1090,00.asp

	24-07-2002 04:48									#2
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Looks. That is all to it, looks.

And I seen better at colorcases.com for PCs.

	24-07-2002 04:54									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You sound like you didn't even read the article.

	24-07-2002 04:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 You sound like you didn't even read the article.

Nothing much really there. Even overrated by this rating from PC Magazine.... I will explain why...

800MHz processer? Come on.... it is also based on antiquated 133MHz architecture correct me if I am wrong. And still uses SDRAM.

BTW, the whole article was talking about how retro that piece of junk is. What a waste of money. Belongs in an elementary school like all other Macs.

	24-07-2002 04:59									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,8219,00.asp

Dell Dimension 4300 gets the same editor rating, but is cheaper and faster.

Have a nice day.

	24-07-2002 05:01									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Their bang for the buck graph is interesting also:

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/0/0,3363,sz=1&i=6979,00.gif

	24-07-2002 05:11									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Thank you Asher for helping me prove my point....

	24-07-2002 05:28									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm a trendsetter.

	24-07-2002 05:41									#9
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"innovative design, attractive hardware complement, and excellent software bundle"
"one of the best ergenomic designs we've seen"
"a fan that is so whisper quiet, users probably won't hear it running and can work in blissful silence"
"image was clear, with no color shift" etc. etc. etc.
These may seem like small things, but they really add up to the most comfortable, pleasant computing experience available. Comfy comfy comfy.
Plus they did a price comparison and for dvdr and lcd and such and such pcs were more expensive (albeit with a slightly faster processer).

	24-07-2002 05:46									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

PCs have much more than a slightly faster processer.

This new Mac is built upon completely outdated hardware with some new things that try to cover the antiquated nature of the whole system itself.

	24-07-2002 05:47									#11
	Tired of ads?

Mind you they also say:

quote: One design touch we don't like: The power switch is also located along the back. It's an awkward position, requiring the user to lean forward and feel blindly for the button each time. A more useful spot would have been on the front of the base or on the screen. Another drawback is the rinky-dink keyboard and mouse that most Apple computers have been saddled with for years. Though they're now white instead of black, they're still far too flimsy for a finely engineered computer. The keyboard feels insubstantial, as though it would fall apart after a bout of heavy typing. The mouse has an optical sensor but still has only one button. It's a shocking oversight, guaranteeing that most users will go out and buy a better mouse. As with other all-in-one designs, upgrade possibilities are limited. The major drawback: There's no way to upgrade to a more powerful graphics solution should you want one down the road.

And I also seriously (very seriously) doubt a DVD-R and LCD systems on PCs were more expensive. Considering you can get those components for very cheap, far cheaper than Apple's store, if you build your own system especially.

	24-07-2002 05:52									#12
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For example, check out this IBM NetVista M Series M42 out: http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin...n_US&scrfnbr=73

It's $1,519.00 USD.
Pentium 4 2.4GHz (512KB L2 cache, 533MHz system bus)
256MB DDR RAM
Windows XP Professional
64MB ATI Radeon 7000 AGP 4X
15" LCD monitor
40GB 7200rpm HD
16x DVD-ROM
10/100 Ethernet card
2-button mouse
Standard full-sized keyboard

Far, far better deal than the iMacs...

If you're really bent on the DVD-R, it's $195: http://www.consumerdepot.com/products.asp?id=DVR-103BA

	24-07-2002 06:19									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

ever heard of the Megahertz Myth?

	24-07-2002 06:23									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Cloud9, don't patronize me. I know all about MHz.

It's stupid to assume MHz is speed, it's also stupid to assume it's not speed. It's a major factor in speed. CPU speed is determined by MHz * IPC (Instructions Per Clock), for the most part. Memory bandwidth and latency also plays a part, but the G4 doesn't compete there either (you can have 4.2GB/s on high end PCs, vs 1.0GB/s on Macs for bandwidth).

The Pentium 4's clockrate is abnormally high, and its IPC is lower than the G4s and Athlons, but MHz * IPC is still way, way higher than the G4 and also higher than the Athlon's.

The 2.4GHz P4 totally and completely dominates a Dual 1GHz G4 in every benchmark thrown at it (even Photoshop), so how badly do you think a single G4 700 or 800 will do?

	24-07-2002 06:25									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Have you ever heard of reality?

Jon Miller

	24-07-2002 06:26									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I was refering to Cloud9

Jon Miller

	24-07-2002 06:33									#17
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Cloud9, don't patronize me. I know all about MHz. It's stupid to assume MHz is speed, it's also stupid to assume it's not speed. It's a major factor in speed. CPU speed is determined by MHz * IPC (Instructions Per Clock), for the most part. Memory bandwidth and latency also plays a part, but the G4 doesn't compete there either (you can have 4.2GB/s on high end PCs, vs 1.0GB/s on Macs for bandwidth). The Pentium 4's clockrate is abnormally high, and its IPC is lower than the G4s and Athlons, but MHz * IPC is still way, way higher than the G4 and also higher than the Athlon's. The 2.4GHz P4 totally and completely dominates a Dual 1GHz G4 in every benchmark thrown at it (even Photoshop), so how badly do you think a single G4 700 or 800 will do?

Then explain to me why AMD's "slower" processors outperform Intel's "faster" processors.

	24-07-2002 06:38									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 Then explain to me why AMD's "slower" processors outperform Intel's "faster" processors.

Argh. I'm going to try this one more time.

There are two main factors in overall CPU performance.
MHz -- this is the clockrate, expressed in terms of millions of cycles per second.
IPC -- this is how many instructions the CPU can executed for every clock rate (every Hz)

The Pentium 4 has a lower IPC than the Athlon, which has a lower IPC than the G4.
The Pentium 4 has a higher MHz rating than the Athlon, which has a higher MHz than the G4.

Neither IPC nor MHz alone is the true indicator of performance. Apple will tell you IPC is, Intel Marketing will tell you MHz is.

Real performance is expressed in terms of IPC * MHz (instructions per clock times how many clockcycles).

The fastest Athlons do not outperform the fastest Pentium 4s, rather the fastest Pentium 4s are faster. Doing less IPC means you can turn up the MHz.

Now, an Athlon at 500MHz will outperform a Pentium 4 at 500MHz. A G4 at 500MHz will outperform a Pentium 4 at 500MHz and an Athlon at 500MHz. But they're not all normalized for that speed.

When you take into account IPC * MHz, the Pentium 4 is fastest, Athlon second fastest, and the G4 way behind somewhere.

	24-07-2002 06:48									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

For example, this program runs chess matches against other computers, and records how many Million Instructions Per Second (MIPS) it scores through the process.

It doesn't have the latest CPUs available for PC or Mac, but they're all pretty modern: http://home.attbi.com/~tckerrigan/bench.html

P4 2.4GHz gets 2770 MIPS
Athlon XP 2200+ (1.8GHz) gets 2352 MIPS
G4 at 867MHz gets 1131.9 MIPS (slightly faster than a Pentium III 933MHz...)

-----

And this benchmark which renders a 3D world: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/benchmark.html

Athlon at 1.6GHz (1900+) gets it done in 2:28.70
Pentium 4 at 2.2GHz gets it done in 2:29.55
Dual 1GHz G4 gets it done in 5:38.78

	24-07-2002 06:50									#20
	Tired of ads?

Macs are for trendy, aesthetic people, not for general Apolytoners. That's why most people here will never get it.

	24-07-2002 07:02									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I am unique. I am special.

p.s. I have it on inside info that mleonard will be getting the new 17" imac. Quite good, makes me envious...

	24-07-2002 07:09									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

"While the PowerBook's price seems high, the unit stacks up well against comparably equipped notebooks. The IBM ThinkPad T23 and T30, for example, have similar prices but smaller screens and less RAM."
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,31749,00.asp

	24-07-2002 07:10									#23
	Got spare money?

the thinkpads are known to be outrageously expensive

Jon Miller

	24-07-2002 07:12									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Mono: IBM is known for it's high prices in notebooks. A Dell would cost $500 cheaper than the Powerbook you linked.

	24-07-2002 07:17									#25
	Remove this text

How wonderful of PCMag to do their research.

The new PowerBooks are $3199US.
They have a G4 800MHz, 512MB PC133 SDRAM, 40GB HD, 15.2" screen capable of 1,280x854, CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive, and Radeon 7500 graphics.

A Dell Inspiron 2650 gives you a P4 1.6GHz, 512MB DDR266 SDRAM, 40GB HD, 15" screen capable of 1600x1200, CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive, and GeForce 2 Go (32MB) graphics. This is for $2,446.00.

Customize it on the Dell site yourself.

	24-07-2002 07:18									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

Doesn't matter to me - I don't like laptops anyways.

	24-07-2002 07:19									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

Why did you link to the article?

	24-07-2002 07:19									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Then why bring it up .

	24-07-2002 07:27									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You Southerners are all the same. Spend a few weeks in the heat and the blood's all a-boiling in your veins.

	24-07-2002 07:43									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I think that the problem with Asher, Fez, Jon Miller and others is that their all pessimists, while I and some others on here quite optimistic. Wouldn't you agree monolith?