01-08-2002 11:09									#121
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I don't think many of the people reading the thread know what scales means. Didn't mean to offend you.

	01-08-2002 11:16									#122
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You must possess some sort of pride in yourself in order to be offended. Luckily, I don't have that problem.

I do find it odd, however, that you felt the need to explain "scaled" to me but gave no explanation as to what in god's name a "dual-channel DDR motherboard" is...

	01-08-2002 12:58									#123
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I like Macs. Been using 'em ever since the Mac Plus ('87 I think). I even made a corny little shareware game for the Mac back when I was 11 (download here if you feel like it : http://www.narcity.com/fun/projects/WB.html). I can agree that Apple's marketing has been quite bad. Who knows, maybe if Mac has actually let others use its OS instead of letting Windows take over the market then Apple would own 90% of the market while DOS based machines would be virtually obsolete. Of course theres no use speculating, it is doubtful that Apple will ever become more than a niche market now which is a shame because it means we Mac users will never get nearly as much software produced for us.

	01-08-2002 17:24									#124
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--"I take it you've had a lot of problems with some of the other types then?"

Not personally, but I do know some people who have had a fair bit. I've never had any problems with the Fuji ones. The only time I've ever coastered a disc was trying to overburn.

Besides, they look nice

--"If there are cheaper brands than Crucial... any special reason why you like them better?"

Quality, reputation, and warranty. Same reason I tend to buy Asus boards even though there are cheaper. When you build the computer out of quality components you'll have a lot less issues with them.

--"Have you heard any new info on the G5, Asher?"

I'm not Asher, but don't hold your breath. The G5s are going to be primarily designed and used in the embedded market. This is particularly new or anything, but it's more extreme this time than before. I don't think Apple is going to be getting a decent supply of these for some time, and I do have to wonder what the performance will be like.

Wraith
"Change is the essential process of all existence."

	01-08-2002 17:57									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I do find it odd, however, that you felt the need to explain "scaled" to me but gave no explanation as to what in god's name a "dual-channel DDR motherboard" is...

Right now the G4 uses 1 memory channel, with 133MHz SDRAM.
Dual channel theoretically doubles that bandwidth, since there's two channels for the memory to go to. What's more is with DDR memory (Double Data Rate) the RAM in each channel will work at about 333MHz or 400MHz (effective).

That means there'd be a huge jump in memory bandwidth available, finally letting Apple catch up to PCs.

	01-08-2002 18:22									#126
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Yeah... Macs have been a long time needing that DDR upgrade... though has DDR been standardized yet? I'm remembering something about there was still a little debate going on about which type of DDR would be standard.

And I'll agree with you, Asher, G4s need a long, dirt nap now. Whatever that rule is of MHz increasing every few months doesn't seem to apply to Apple... and that's just sad.

	01-08-2002 21:51									#127
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JEDEC has made standards a long time ago for DDR. They just actually finished standardizing DDR-II. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia makes a G5 motherboard that it supports dual-channel DDR-II. Nvidia's upcoming NV30 graphics chip runs on DDR-II memory, the first commercial product in the world to do it (128-256MB of 1GHz DDR-II memory on a 256-bit bus...32GB/s...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm)

	01-08-2002 22:11									#128
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You know Flameflash I am still waiting for a decent response to my message...

You say a lot folks, but I don't know how Apple can afford any of this now. Especially with rapidly plummeting revenues. Apple was probably hit harder than the PC market.

	01-08-2002 22:16									#129
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The G5 will probably cost the same as the G4, Fez. Also remember Apple doesn't make the processors, Motorola does.

Plus Apple has something like $6B in cash.

	01-08-2002 23:49									#130
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$6 Billion in cash? Isn't that running out fast... and is Motorola willing to bail out a failing company?

	01-08-2002 23:53									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Fez $6 Billion in cash? Isn't that running out fast... and is Motorola willing to bail out a failing company?

Fez, just what are you talking about?
They made $40M last quarter, why would their cash supply be going down?

Their current assets are actually increasing still.
$5,272,000,00 in Q4 2001
$5,414,000,000 in Q1 2002.

And why would Motorola bail Apple out? What are you talking about?!

	01-08-2002 23:55									#132
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Fez, once you actually offer some counter-points to my posts I'll actually dignify some kind of command like that with a response. I've asked you questions, you ignore them, I explain definitions, you ignore them, I respond to your questions and posts, you ignore them and say I'm suffering from idiocy.

You are simply a little anti-Mac troll if you continue to refuse to offer counter-points to my points and counter-points. This argument is over as far as I'm concerned, I'm tired of you wasting my time with your "demands" while not respecting my own questions and posts.

And BTW... just read that Motorola and Apple are working on a motherboard that will support an affordable (okay, so it'll be just as expensive as current upper Mac models) quad processor motherboard and a 1.6GHz chip.

And Fez... rather than just assuming that the $6B is running out fast, why don't you give us some numbers that actually prove that they are.

	01-08-2002 23:58									#133
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And it looks like Asher and I posted at the same time... where in the world do you get your info so quickly Asher!


<--- When FlameFlash grows up, he wants to be just like Asher...

But seriously, looks like sheer numbers proved you wrong on that one, Fez.

	02-08-2002 00:10									#134
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash <--- When FlameFlash grows up, he wants to be just like Asher...

you know that Asher is canadian, right??

Jon Miller

	02-08-2002 00:15									#135
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@ Miller

I'm Native American... Chippewa actually, my people originated there.

	02-08-2002 00:27									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you know that Asher is canadian, right?? Jon Miller

You're half-right, as usual.

FlameFlash: I got the numbers from finance.yahoo.com
Find Apple's stock ticker (the lookup is linked right in the top middle), click 'Financials', and it's all there in chart form.

	02-08-2002 23:59									#137
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Very cool, thanks.

Half right?

	03-08-2002 00:04									#138
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I've got dual citizenship

	03-08-2002 01:25									#139
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Your flag shows where your loyalties are, you damn canuck...

Thanks for the info on "dual channel DDR motherboards". Sounds like a good thing. If Wraith is right about Motorola producing the G5 mainly for the embedded market, however, then the G5 could really suck. Steve Jobs is already pissed at Motorola and I'm sure this won't help relations. Maybe we'll see new chips in Macs in the near future?

	03-08-2002 02:16									#140
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The only other company that makes PowerPC chips is IBM, so maybe Apple will go back to IBM eventually. IBM's chips tend to be aimed at supercomputers these days, they build servers with clusters of hundreds or thousands of them together. But for the near future Motorola looks to be the only real supplier.

As for my flag -- I was born here and lived here most of my life, and currently live here now. Hence the Canadian flag. As soon as I graduate from university I'm moving back to California though. Better job market.

	03-08-2002 02:21									#141
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Always be proud of where you were born. I still consider Iowa my home state, I like their flag better than the Missouri one too...

(yeah, lousy similarity, but still a slight one.)

And I really doubt Motorola would want to lose Apple... sure they're only suppling chips to a company that has a 5% market share... but Apple's constant call for better processors must help out the embedded market a little bit.

	03-08-2002 12:04									#142
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http://news.com.com/2100-1001-948239.html?tag=fd_top

quote: Analyst: Apple to lie down with Intel By Michael Kanellos Staff Writer, CNET News.com August 2, 2002, 2:34 PM PT Apple Computer will likely shift to using Intel chips, while circumstances exist that could well push Dell Computer and Sun Microsystems into a friendly embrace, predicted Bear Stearns analyst Andrew Neff. Intense competition, softening demand, excess capacity and the fact that virtually every technology company shows some sort of exposed vulnerability will likely prompt a rash of changes in the market, according to Neff in the latest version of his "PC manifesto," a detailed report on the state of the market. "The key for investors to is to realize that this isn't a game where companies die and simply go away," Neff wrote. "In reality, this is a rare occurrence. We believe it is a time for company managements to take steps toward concrete changes, as those that recognize the need for action first will get the best deals...The point being, there is no easy way out." Neff's predictions in the 50-page report vary depending on the circumstances in which the companies find themselves. Neff, for instance, predicted Apple, which uses chips from Motorola and IBM that currently top out at 1GHz, will switch to Intel, whose chips run at 2.5GHz, to get a performance boost and gain more customers. There's a better than 80 percent chance Apple will make the jump in two to four years, he said.

	04-08-2002 00:16									#143
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Holy ****!

Did I call that or what?

	06-08-2002 03:11									#144
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Thanks for that info, Asher!

That opens up all sorts of stuff for Apple if they could get an OS running on Intel-based systems. No more Windows emulation, you could just partition your drive and run OS X (or whatever version), Windows XP (or whatever version), some other LINUX or UNIX-based system, and get all the software and features you like...

Sheesh. That really would open the door for Apple, that's for sure... and at the same time it would screw them as far as them making and marketing computers (except for the fact that they'd probably just start marketing their eye-candy machines a lot more as just eye-candy.)

	06-08-2002 06:29									#145
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Apple is going into the PC market... so much for the Mac....

	06-08-2002 07:43									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Apple is going into the PC market... so much for the Mac....

A. this is an analyst's prediction - analysts are more known for being wrong than right. He may be right, but it sure ain't a foregone conclusion.

B. I don't understand your statement. If Apple put an Intel chip in its boxes why would that mean no more Mac? There is no indication that Apple is going to license its OS to anyone else, so if you like Macs or the MacOS you would still have to buy a Mac. So what did you mean?

	06-08-2002 07:49									#147
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Note that it is only an analyst's prediction.

But it also doesn't mean that, if it's true, Apple is going x86.

Intel has the capability to design multiple processors, and does so (Pentium 4, Xeon, StrongARM, XScale, Pentium III-T, etc), so they can design new chips as well. The most likely scenerio if Intel makes Apple chips is to use a modified version of x86, IMO. They wouldn't be compatible with PC chips, or PC software, which would allow Apple to continue to have a stranglehold on their hardware.

The downside is that means existing PowerPC applications would not be compatible. I don't see that as a real possibility anyway, Apple just forced applications to be redone to run under OS X, they're not going to force them to recompile them all for a new instruction set a couple years later.

So either Intel would use a modified x86, and force everyone to recompile for a new instruction set, or they'll somehow license PowerPC and develop a new chip on that. This is highly unlikely, IMO.

So, to counter the analyst, I think that if anyone other than Motorola is going to win the chip contract, it'll be IBM. IBM makes PowerPC chips already.

	06-08-2002 19:17									#148
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*nods* You're probably right, Asher...

And Echinda, trust me... don't ask Fez questions... you won't get any straight answers, especially since you're a Mac user.

	06-08-2002 19:27									#149
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Flameflash, STFU.

Echinda, I was just making a joke... no harm done...

	06-08-2002 19:31									#150
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Hey, the truth hurts sometimes Fez. If you ever give my arguements a straight answer instead of just throwing insults, I'll retract that statement.

And with your other past statements on this thread, you kind of need to denote when you're making a joke or not, otherwise people will take it for more blanketed statements.