25-07-2002 01:42									#1
	The Explorer: What's the Use? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I know what the Civilopeadia 'says' about the Explorer unit, but does this unit have any real purpose?

Generally, by the time I can make this unit, I have already traded World/Territory maps with all other Civs, so I know about the general geography of the world. Any nonclaimed land can be surveyed w/ ships or ground units that actually serve a purpose.

Does/Has anyone out there in Apolyton-land ever actually used this unit? How would/did you use him?

Just curious.

	25-07-2002 02:23									#2
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It's good for running around pillaging resources. They're "all terrain is roads" units.

I typically don't use it, but one could. I don't think the AI kicks them out like they do normal units (they eventually will, but not right away), which allows them to get into position.

-Arrian

	25-07-2002 02:25									#3
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Use the explorer to spy on AI empires when you don't have an RoP. Although you will be asked to remove your forces from its territory, you can often go for many, many turns before you get the "leave or declare war" warning (try not to end an explorer's turn right next to a city), unlike the "military units" which will be expelled pretty quickly. Since explorers treat all terrain as roads, they get to move 6 tiles each turn, no matter the terrain and whether it is roaded / railroaded. By bouncing from mountain top to mountain top, you can get a good view on an entire AI empire and assess the degree of terrain development, the number of military troops roaming around, the fortifications / defenses around resources, etc.

Potential Exploit (some might consider it so, others not): During war-time, the Explorer can still move six tiles into enemy territory. If an AI resource (think rubber or oil, or a lone luxury) is within five tiles of your border and is not protected by a garrisoned troop, 2 "suicide explorers" will be able to pillage that resource - quite a blow in the early stages of a war. [I say that this is a potential exploit because I have never seen the AI use it, and it kinda seems unfair to employ a tactic that the AI seems absolutely incapable of employing].

Catt

	25-07-2002 02:29									#4
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But that is the best use for the unit. I dunno if it's an exploit.

-Arrian

	25-07-2002 02:36									#5
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Nope, never used it

	25-07-2002 02:36									#6
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Doh! Cross-post with Arrian, and then almost a second cross-post.

Yes, I don't really consider it an exploit, but some do (is using arty offensively therefore an exploit?).

Although the pillage resource gambit I described can be very powerful in certain, limited situations - and maybe I made it sound more useful than it is - I have used it or see the need / utility of usding it in maybe 2% - 5% of my games. Principally useful when fighting a defensive war against a more powerful opponent which prevents you from using conventional forces to march into enemy territory.

I do build a pair of explorers in probably 15% - 20% of my games so they're ready in case of need and can be used on the peaceful spying missions I describe.

Catt

	25-07-2002 02:39									#7
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quote: Yes, I don't really consider it an exploit, but some do (is using arty offensively therefore an exploit?).

Exactly. Refusing to do things the AI can't do would reduce you to the strategic and tactical level of the AI, so what's the point? Seems silly.

I haven't seen a lot of situations where the explorer really is useful either, so it's not a bit deal.

-Arrian

	25-07-2002 03:00									#8
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With some modding kind of like the explorer.

Moved him to available at Astronomy and gave him a
1 Defense, no attack rating - think of him as a small conquistidor travelling party - not much fighting power, but not totally defensless either - some get killed, some survive.
(I use riders and swordsmen for barbarians though also).

Use him for exploring, but also as a cheap border enforcer for "wandering zombie" armies of the AI at choke points.

Playing on bigger worlds he's probably more important too.

Also have had some anectdotal evidence that the "all terrain as roads" flag is like what the scout seems to be: a guaranteed positive result landing on goodie huts.

I give him an airdrop capability too - kind of a baby SF unit this way - for the later game. With the new add units may mod a different version into a real SF unit: 1 attack, invisible, no nationality(?), see invisible - little SF wars in the back lines over connecting resources, ect.

Last edited by candidgamera on 25-07-2002 at 03:08

	25-07-2002 04:21									#9
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Explorer, only good for huge maps with only a couple of rival civs in it.

	26-07-2002 01:19									#10
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never used it but good idea cat and arrian

	26-07-2002 07:24									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Of course if you're really bored you could set up a war between two AIs, make peace with both of them, and then send in your explorers to get a great view of the fighting.

	26-07-2002 12:56									#12
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Consider it an extra unit slot all ready to be easily edited

	26-07-2002 18:19									#13
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Another fun use for explorers is to have several move with a defensive army through enemy territory. Each turn, the explorers fan out and pillage everything within a two-square radius (two out, pillage, two back to the safety of the army). It’s like Sherman cutting a path to the sea. You can also use the “LRP” strategy to send the explorers out five squares on a (most likely) one-way mission to deny a strategic resource, luxury or transport link.

A fun use, but rarely very practical. If you’re engaging purely in a war of attrition and area denial (meaning you don’t intend to capture/occupy any territory), it’s very effective. But otherwise, you’re just going to create more work for yourself rebuilding what you’ve just pillaged.

	26-07-2002 18:51									#14
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I haven't ever had a use for the explorer either. The scout serves the same purpose early in the game when it's important to discover the huts for goodies. By the time you can create an explorer, they are worthless units.

	26-07-2002 22:20									#15
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Hmmmm. I was with you Sleestax, in that I never saw a use for explorers -- since I took their name/title literally. But Barchan, Cat and Arrian have some great ideas there! I think I'll try it next time I have the chance.

BTW, do explorers in enemy territory trigger war weariness as quickly as moving conventional ground troops into enemy territory does?

Col D.

	08-08-2002 22:29									#16
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Not that this is a major issue, and you either never use the Explorer or can easily mod a solution into the game. Personally even on a huge map I know (almost) all of the world by the time I can build an explorer so I never use them.

Vote on a Poll I created: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=58320

	08-08-2002 22:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan Another fun use for explorers is to have several move with a defensive army through enemy territory. Each turn, the explorers fan out and pillage everything within a two-square radius (two out, pillage, two back to the safety of the army). It’s like Sherman cutting a path to the sea.

That goes straight into my 'strategies for builders' book. If you hate war, make the AI hate it too.

	08-08-2002 23:17									#18
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Barchan,

My problem with that is that I am almost always in a war to conquer the enemy. Like you said, extensive pillaging would only make more work for me once I won.

But recently there was a situation where it could have been useful. Playing on an achipelago map makes it difficult to project power, at least until airports. I was fighting off my home landmass and the best I could do was take a couple of cities and raze a couple more. I didn't really touch the enemy's core area. Some explorer pillaging would have been good there.

-Arrian

	08-08-2002 23:50									#19
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fantastic usage of the explorer, i had never seen the purp[ose of them til lyou guys posted this... thanks

	09-08-2002 02:10									#20
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Great ideas guys!! I like Catt's idea of having a couple around just in case.

I used them in MT V to razed my own forward fort positions.

I can very much envision them for those situations where I like to set up a forward defensive position (w/an Army of course) to try to generate GLs... I typically pillage the area into a war-torn hell, and extending that one tile further is fine by me.

	09-08-2002 12:34									#21
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I think the biggest problem with the explorer is its incapability to deal with Barbarians...
Colonizing an unsetteled continent (with no maps abailable to be traded) using explorers makes sense, but the fact that there are probably lots of barbarians on the continent makes them useless (or will at least give you a headache once your third explorer ends its turn next to a barbarian camp). Escorting a explorer is completely pointless.

	09-08-2002 12:57									#22
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar Consider it an extra unit slot all ready to be easily edited

Edited into a PARTISAN unit coming with Industrialization, and with enough combat points to be quite a nuisance.

What is sad is there is no use for an Explorer as there is nothing left to explore by the time we get it. That was part of the FUN of Civ 2.

	09-08-2002 13:27									#23
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Nah I never use them

	10-08-2002 20:34									#24
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You could give him the Sub flag, making him invisible. That would make him a little more useful.

	11-08-2002 20:38									#25
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But that is the best use for the unit. I dunno if it's an exploit.

-Arrian

nahh, it aint an exploit. The A.I. does things YOU could never do. It cheats to make up for its limited intelligence. Like Bush.

	11-08-2002 23:47									#26
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I never realized you could pillage with them, thanks guys. I mainly use them to do recon on a civ that I know will attack me shortly, so why worry about antagonizing them? Get some current info, and when lined up down a road, can act as speed bumps. The enemy units lose their attacks killing/capturing them, meaning that another unit has to kill the secind one, etc., cutting down the 1st turn firepower.

	12-08-2002 00:00									#27
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quote: nahh, it aint an exploit. The A.I. does things YOU could never do. It cheats to make up for its limited intelligence. Like Bush.

You really should not insult the intelligence of those that are smarter than you Menkerios. Nor should you insult the president of the most powerful nation in the world.

	12-08-2002 10:25									#28
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The biggest problem with the Explorer is its name. If it were named "Saboteur" would others find it more useful (hint: you don't use it to "explore").

Catt

Last edited by Catt on 12-08-2002 at 11:06

	12-08-2002 10:58									#29
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Gee, Explorers are such useful units that I can't remember the last time I even considered putting them in the build que...

Actually I didn't even know they were in the game until I read this thread...

	12-08-2002 20:27									#30
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Build lots of explorers and disband them in fringe cities that have low production power. Works great for me. Anyone else think of this?

Explorers, like all other SUV's, are gas guzzlers so that's why I stick to cars. Oops wrong forum....