25-07-2002 03:12									#1
	What am I doing wrong ? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've played very regularly since Civ3 was released (there was a 6 week break when I was into Diablo2, but thats a different story), and I've NEVER had more than 3 Great leaders in one game (and this lucky occurence happened in one single game).

I've almost never had more than one. I've chosen Militant societies, been at war for nearly the entire game, made absolute certain that I built Sun Tzu's Art of War (its easier to get elite units when they start out as veteran) ... and virtually no GLs. WTF ?

Is there any other way I can increase the number of GLs I get ?

	25-07-2002 03:18									#2
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With your first hero build an army so you can get the Heroic Epic, that increases your chance of advancement and GLs.

Also, attack towns with your elite units. Try and make sure your elite unit will win. Attacking a town gives greater odds of generating a GL then does defnding a town or fighting Barbs.

Oh yeah, some guys train their troops up to elite by hanging out around barb huts.

	25-07-2002 03:18									#3
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When you get one, build the Heroic Epic. If you just want armies, build the mil academy.

	25-07-2002 04:04									#4
	Re: What am I doing wrong ? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by KenderBane I've NEVER had more than 3 Great leaders in one game [...] Is there any other way I can increase the number of GLs I get ?

Hopefully you're aware that any one elite unit can only generate one GL in its entire lifetime (unless you upgrade it at which point it may gen another GL). So if you have one expeditionary force of a few favorite elite units out there trying to gen GL's you may be spinning your wheels. Once a unit has gen'd a GL you can attack until you're blue in the face and you still won't get another with that unit (again, this is reset if you upgrade the unit).

Prior to the 1.29 patch you had to somehow keep track of which units had gen'd GL's. It was a pain because they all looked alike. 1.29 puts an asterisk next to units which have created a GL (and newly GL gen'ing units get to have a special name), so it's now a trivial task to keep track of who's gen'd & who's there to give you another GL.

This thread has some related info:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=54630

	25-07-2002 04:06									#5
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i'm playing a game as Aztecs (militaristic civ), and i had the heroic epic, ad i just got 4 great leaders in ONE TURN. when i got one i'd build an army with it, so i got multiples on the same turn.

awesome

i had a few stacks of elite armors

	25-07-2002 08:01									#6
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So it is possible to have more than one leader in a game at any one time? That's never happened to me though, even though I've been in a perpetual war since the beginning of time.

	25-07-2002 08:12									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Iskandar Reza So it is possible to have more than one leader in a game at any one time? That's never happened to me though, even though I've been in a perpetual war since the beginning of time.

No, it is not possible to have more than one leader in a game at any one time. Firaxians have spoken.
Uber was saying that he would get a leader, then immediately use it to form an army. THEN he made more attacks, got another leader, etc.

	25-07-2002 08:58									#8
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I experimented last night.

Early on, having just reserached Horseback Riding, I sent 1 Spearman and 4 Horesemen into a neutral territory where I was at war with 2 AI civs.

Parked the whole stack on a mountain... the vets fairly quickly got upgraded to elite, and healed, protected, on the mountain.

If an Ai civ built a city nearby, well....

Although it feels like 1.29 has decreased GL generation, this strat worked.

My advice, Kender: If you want GLs, play to get them.

	25-07-2002 09:08									#9
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getting GLs were supposed to be a boon, almost a suprise.

but it's to easy to calculate the battles so you generate a ton.

	25-07-2002 10:05									#10
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Japher is right on the money, if you plan to be at war, plan early, build the Heroic Epic. It'll help you alot down the road. My last game, I was getting GL's every turn. I'd guess I had maybe 20 in that game (most late, when I don't need them...).

Venger

	25-07-2002 11:02									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hey KenderBane, didn't realize their was any other Oklahomans on Apolyton. Figured I was the only one around, heh. Anyway, with militant civs waging lots of wars early on should get you some GLs, also you might want to wear units down with your regulars/veterans first, then let your elites finished off weakened units, so you can increase the chance of getting a GL from it. Anyway, all the advice i've got, never really went after getting GLs.

Oh, and everyone loves Kenders, you know.

	25-07-2002 11:28									#12
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Although I do believe you UberKruX and I agree with the strategy of Theseus, I have to say that I have never really had more than say 6-7 GL in an entire game and I am playing the Chinese which is a militaristic civ . It once drove me crazy because I build the Heroic Epic and I kept attacking with my Elite Units but to no avail Oh, well I am not all that fond of armies although a GL is great for building GW.

	25-07-2002 11:37									#13
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My current Persian game is at 400BC, and I have already generated 2 GLs without ever building the Heroic Epic.

In my other Japanese game, I fought forever and have yet to see the first GL.

I never got any GLs for the Romans despite fighting countless battles with them.

	25-07-2002 18:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Also, attack towns with your elite units. Try and make sure your elite unit will win. Attacking a town gives greater odds of generating a GL then does defnding a town or fighting Barbs.

No leaders come from barbarian battles. You units will promote themselves, but an elite unit defeating a barbarian will never produce a leader.

	25-07-2002 21:13									#15
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I got 4 GL's before I built the Heoric Epic, and before year 0. It is now 14something and I have gotten at least 7 more, since I always use them to build wonders (apart from the first one), and never build wonders without them. I have all but 4 wonders, and will probably not get J.S. Bach since everyone is building it and there aren't any civs close enough to attack.

I always play for great leaders, and I have been known to sacrifice units that have generated them so that I won't get confused if they have made one or not (I don't have the new patch installed). Yet, I am always aware of where my elite units are, and try to have them win the battles. I will cuss when I take a town with a regular and have an elite waiting.

I think it is important to try and make the leaders and take an active approach to advancing units individually, build the structures that help advance (barracks, Art of War, Heroic Epic), and then always try to win a fight with your most advanced unit. I want to reiterate that you have a better chance of producing a GL if you are the aggressor and if you are attacking a town.

That's all... GL production discussions are fun

	25-07-2002 23:21									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I want to reiterate that you have a better chance of producing a GL if you are the aggressor and if you are attacking a town.

It's true that you chances for leader generation are doubled on offense compared to defense. But I haven't seen anything to indicate that attacking a town is more likely to create a leader than attacking a unit in the open.

Is your statement based on your own game observations or something "semi official" (i.e., a Firaxian post, and extensive testing program, etc.) that I've missed?

Catt

	26-07-2002 01:51									#17
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quote: haven't seen anything to indicate that attacking a town is more likely to create a leader than attacking a unit in the open. Is your statement based on your own game observations or something "semi official" (i.e., a Firaxian post, and extensive testing program, etc.) that I've missed?

On observation only, and from other readings have found that this is not true. Yet, it sure seems like it. Maybe because they ussually keep a lot of guys in towns, and I can get a few good attacks in one round in, instead of trying to hunt down guys on the roads.

	26-07-2002 02:13									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hey KenderBane, didn't realize their was any other Oklahomans on Apolyton. Figured I was the only one around, heh. Anyway, with militant civs waging lots of wars early on should get you some GLs, also you might want to wear units down with your regulars/veterans first, then let your elites finished off weakened units, so you can increase the chance of getting a GL from it. Anyway, all the advice i've got, never really went after getting GLs.


ChaotikVisions ... I'm not FROM Oklahoma ... just stationed here at Ft Sill (yes, that makes me active duty military).

	26-07-2002 02:20									#19
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Ah, so not really an Oklahoman then. Well, Oklahoma isn't too bad of a place to be, compared to some places at least.

	26-07-2002 05:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I experimented last night.

don't tell us please

(couldn't resist, sorry )

quote: posted by theseus Although it feels like 1.29 has decreased GL generation, this strat worked.

I've noticed this too, but do we have something official on that??
btw; that would be a good thing, I think GL's shouldn't appear every game ( my previous game gave 10 or 11 and I only played until late industrial)