29-07-2002 06:43									#1
	Unofficial: Provinces? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I've just been looking over the CFC Demogame (i dont usually go to CFC so it's kind of new to me), and i am beginning to like the idea of their provinces.

I realize our nation ism't really large enough to draw up many provinces right now, but the way i see it we're on the verge of explosive expansion.

Would you like to see provinces created?

	29-07-2002 06:59									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i think we should keep it as it is now, then next game, we should make radical changes (including the addition of provinces and governors)

	29-07-2002 07:01									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sure, as long as everything is thorougly worked out.

	29-07-2002 07:02									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i think we can afford to make provinces now, or soon. it could add another level where people disagree on what to do, which is always delightful

	29-07-2002 07:02									#5
	Support Apolyton

At this point, it would be unnecessary for us to create a province for any reason other than to make the region easy to identify. But once our empire has developed more, then I think that the idea has merit.

	29-07-2002 07:32									#6
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ninot i think we can afford to make provinces now, or soon. it could add another level where people disagree on what to do, which is always delightful

Nice to see that supreme power is having an... effect on your views, and that you are keeping a sense of humour.

Yes, Provinces might be a good idea. At the very least, being a Provincial governor would be good exercize for some of the players lacking experience in government. That would give us a chance to see who is able to do a good job of handeling responsibilities. Ohhh Punkbass...

	29-07-2002 07:35									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Nice to see that supreme power is having an... effect on your views, and that you are keeping a sense of humour. Yes, Provinces might be a good idea. At the very least, being a Provincial governor would be good exercize for some of the players lacking experience in government. That would give us a chance to see who is able to do a good job of handeling responsibilities. Ohhh Punkbass...

lol, i was trying to be serious too

anyways, NYE's comment reminds me of one destinct problem... what if we start getting so many jobs that there arent enough active members to take care of?

	29-07-2002 07:37									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm fine with separate functions, as long as we can stay coordinated and certain provinces don't get ignored.

	29-07-2002 07:37									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

I thought you were being serious, that's what makes the humour more welcome.

We can leave the less necessary positions vacant.

	29-07-2002 07:42									#10
	Put an end to popups!

How about in the future when we have obvious separate territories?

	29-07-2002 07:47									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One of the best ideas to come to us from Phoenatica. I think we could even divide our current holdings into two provinces right now.

But I agree that we should wait a little longer.

	29-07-2002 07:56									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

if we dont have enough active members to hold down positions, we could take another idea from CFC: having multiple positions. this might lead to problems though. uber might run for, and win, every position!

	29-07-2002 07:57									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The idea didn't really come from them... we were discussing this earlier, but we only had one city then.

	29-07-2002 07:57									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with the sentiment that we should wait until our Empire grows a bit more to establish provinces. We could probably separate based on original national origin (meaning former American lands would make up a province, and the original four cities of Apolytonia would be a province as well).

	29-07-2002 08:09									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I like the idea.

Of course, I still can't vote...

Oh, and if we do have provinces, I'm interested in being a Governor.

	29-07-2002 08:34									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ninot anyways, NYE's comment reminds me of one destinct problem... what if we start getting so many jobs that there arent enough active members to take care of?

giving people the opportunity for more involvement (by way of responsibility/ownership) may actually increase the number of active members...

if someone gets to be a governor and make decisions, whereas before he was only joe citizen with diluted voice/power, he may become more interested and more active.

Also if we give out mayorships, so we can have mayors for each city, that would help along the same lines too. we have more active citizens than cfc (i think) but they seem to do just fine filling most of their critical positions.

btw, we get along fine without now, so even if we can't fill the position, that shouldn't be a problem.

	29-07-2002 09:30									#17
	Suffering from ads?

I like it too, but presently there is little call for Governors.

Our cities should be fully geared towards finishing off our first plan - we have taken American cities, and now we must settle the land and resources open to us. We should build little but defense, settlers, and maybe some temples/workers.

Just because there war is done and dusted doesn't mean we can sit back - this requires a centralized plan with all efforts working in concert before any results will be seen.

	29-07-2002 10:36									#18
	Re: Unofficial: Provinces? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX I've just been looking over the CFC Demogame (i dont usually go to CFC so it's kind of new to me), and i am beginning to like the idea of their provinces. I realize our nation ism't really large enough to draw up many provinces right now, but the way i see it we're on the verge of explosive expansion. Would you like to see provinces created?

This poll is in violation of the CoL that says the first is supposed to be neutral and unbiased. And while I did vote yes with governors, I believe even unofficial polls need to adhere to the CoL.

	29-07-2002 11:16									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

EDITED: I was feeling tired and irritable.

So it's counter to the Constitution - so what? Who cares? We don't need to examine this - it is an unofficial poll and as such nothing can come of it but perhaps an official poll.

Does anyone see this as enough of a threat to warrant Judicial attention? I hope not.

	29-07-2002 14:02									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

All the court could do is judge the poll invalid, ie 'Unofficial'. IMO.

	29-07-2002 20:50									#21
	Support Apolyton

Hi! Though you might want an insider's opinion. I'm a governor in Phoenatica and it's GREAT!! Provincial politics is a great way to get people involved and is a source of pride for us (we Asphinxians are the proudest of all!). There is healthy competition between provinces, but in the end everyone works together (in theory). My province is quite large and has 8 cities (including 3 of the top 5 in the nation!!). A civ needs about 10 cities before you can split into provinces, just make sure when you do start with them you define borders WELL in advance, even though this will mean alot of 'your' provinces may be temporarially in the hands of heathen. I you visit Phoenatica, be sure to come to Thebes, capital of Asphinxia Province (see I can't help being proud).

	29-07-2002 21:23									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I must say something... Yes now they're not needed. But, it's good to plan ahead, and start building the basic Provincial borders and then add on to them (maybe have governors now or later), But I feel that later Micromanaging 20-40 cities maybe more than one person will want or be able to do with great care. That's why Governors are so useful, detailed Micromanagement of cities, it's also a good "spring board."

I also think the concerns of lack of citizens is unfounded, you have 2-3 times the number of active citizens CFC has yet we're doing fine. The Recent elections have had alot of "default unapposed winners," but that has alot to do with our small size.

	29-07-2002 22:14									#23
	Got spare money?

I like the idea.
CFC has far fewer ministerial positions if I remember correctly, although each one does have a backup minister. I would be conserned that many of our prominent members will have less time once the school season starts. This might be a way to reduce the number of ministers we would need then......

I like the idea of having them as appointed positions for a one month time frame. Also, we wouldn't have to necessarily exclude the justices...... Else those 5 positions / people might feel isolated.

Lets brainstorm some more on this.

	29-07-2002 22:48									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by GodKing CFC has far fewer ministerial positions if I remember correctly, although each one does have a backup minister.

And they have about a 1/3 as many people in about 3 times as long.

I think this poll is fairy definitive. Someone should start hashing together an amendment to deal with it, if people are so in favor of it.

	30-07-2002 01:50									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

Let me ask for some clarification about provinces: Are governors simply multi-city mayors, with the task of running the cities, or do they form a second, lower rung of power? Do the governors work with each other or against, in temrs of getting things for their province? and what shal be the realtion to the existing cabinet members? If the city planner wants x-built in apolyton, but the governor whant y built, who wins, who decides?

	30-07-2002 02:37									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I believe they would REPLACE the city planner. The governor would act as the City Planner for the Province.

	30-07-2002 03:05									#27
	Got spare money?

I say yes to provinces, but only in later phases of the game when we have at least twice as many cities as we have now. Also, all province administrators should be under the supervision of a minister (maybe a new appointed minister, though I don't think that's such a good idea) or the president. That way, when we need a certain type of unit or if we want to direct our efforts at culture, for example, we could be sure to expect cooperation from all the province administrators.
Otherwise one province will be building military units because its administrator will feel like it's time for war while another province builds exploration units and another builds city improvements. We can't have that, now can't we?

	30-07-2002 04:09									#28
	Tired of ads?

I see the City Planner as the Governor Supremo. When we are at the stage where planning every city's queues is impracticable, we have a broad policy for certain areas/cities, and it is the City Planner's job to ensure the queues created by individual Governors are consistent with the broad strategy. In the case that something specific is needed, the City Planner (acting directly on behalf of the Prez/people) would naturally takes command.

Thus Governors have a certain degree of freedom, and thus are not just following Ministerial orders (hence there is some responsibility to the job), but when the need arises, decisions are made by the people until any crisis is resolved. The City Planner keeps their job by ensuring the queues are consistent with the broad strategy and do not clash with each other.

	30-07-2002 04:25									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

*sigh*

Manually add +1 to the first option.

God, I hate this.

	30-07-2002 04:53									#30
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think province governors shouldn't be too independant, and should be overseen by a city planner of some sort. For example, if we're preparing war, a rogue governor shouldn't be able to build libraries when knights are needed.
To do this, I suggest someone should be a supervisor, and checks if the building queues of a city match our general objectives. Such a role could be taken by the Prez, the VP, or simply the people (who vote on general issues re building queues).
The supervisor role would be minor, and I feel an election for such a minor post would be unnecessary. Maybe the cabinet / the people should decide who in the cabinet will take this charge during the term. As it wouldn't be a strictly elected position, it will allow more flexibility when we have to replace him : for example, if we have to fill the technological gap, the Science minister could become city supervisor. If war is suddenly declared, the cabinet could "elect" immediately the SMC to be supervisor.
What do you think ?