31-07-2002 06:51									#1
	Second Alamo Thread Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sorry for the clutter guys....just wanted to make it easy to find the alamo.sav...seems there's been a bit of trouble finding it. Mods, if you'd rather not have two threads cluttering stuff up, please close the old one?

-=Vel=-

Attachment: alamo game start, 4000 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 115 time(s).

	31-07-2002 06:52									#2
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Last minute instructions and such!

1) There's a leader in one of your cities, currently fortified. Use him on turn one as you see fit!

2) All troops (cept for front line RA's) on your "tier one" fortifications have been ordered to fortify. These may be awakened and rearranged to taste.

3) Roughly half of the troops at the wire (tier two forts) have been ordered to fortify, and these too, may be awakened and arranged to taste.

4) All ground troops in Washington have been ordered to fortify, and these, like the forces at the front, may be arranged to taste.

5) All your f-15's have been placed on air superiority missions, and put on quite a splendid show when you end your turn!

Enjoy!
-=Vel=-

	31-07-2002 08:15									#3
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Further first move thoughts:

* Change the build orders to your preference.

* Select tech to research (if any).

Get ready for mayhem!!!

	31-07-2002 15:13									#4
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Vel, you forgot the "Good luck, and Godspeed" wish... people will really need it

DeepO

	31-07-2002 17:18									#5
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D'oh! I did, didn't I? Good luck and Godspeed!

-=Vel=-

	31-07-2002 21:59									#6
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Also, you will need to wake the 8 squadrons on your three carriers, 'L'oad them, wake them again and set them for air superiority.

	31-07-2002 23:34									#7
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Is this thread supposed to be for spoilers, too?

	31-07-2002 23:47									#8
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dawidge, there is a "Alamo: AAR, spoilers and strats" thread some 10 threads below this one...

DeepO

	31-07-2002 23:53									#9
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Correction: it is called "Alamo AAR and comment/spoiler thread", and is more like some 15 threads below this one

DeepO

	01-08-2002 01:07									#10
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Vel, I have yet to congratulate you on the modding you did to the ADMs of our navy, they are quite well balanced. Now, you really have a choice of building two destroyers vs building one battleship, and the Aegis make more sense too. But, maybe it would be an idea to list all changes here, so people now what to expect...

DeepO

	01-08-2002 12:56									#11
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Korn469 has a scenario that you guy's might like to try out. It gives you ancient era units against industrial era units. You have about 3 times the number of units as your opponents (the English). It's not as good as Alamo, though I think it has some potential, but it needs suggestions.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...&threadid=57471

	01-08-2002 21:14									#12
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Thanks Deep-O! The only thing I forgot to do was that I wanted to give AEGIS cruisers lethal bombard ability (you might have noticed that Cruise Missiles are now blessed with that ability). Thought that'd make the AEGIS cruiser a more attractive Capitol ship.

Ah...I also meant to boost the defense of the Carrier.... forgot that!

-=Vel=-

	01-08-2002 21:14									#13
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Bam...will do! That sounds like a good challenge!

-=Vel=-

	01-08-2002 21:28									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Lethal bombardment on the Aegis would have been cool, I noticed it on the missiles, yes... damn you! So far, it has been much harder to keep the first tier forts, because I lost some of my units to those cruise missiles. My AIs are actually building more of them, so that's a good thing.

About the defense of the carriers: I don't know. As it is now, the carriers are among the last ships that will come to the front for defense, which means that they are relatively unharmed until it really is too late. The destroyers and others that protect them take the first hits... It has been the saving for my Western carrier (forgot the name, not the Enterprise, and not Aeson, the other one) for 2 times already, when all the protecting ships were either sunk, or shot to 1HP. It is ironic that having a lower defense protects you more then having a higher defense...

DeepO

	01-08-2002 21:44									#15
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Hmmm...that's a good point....hadn't looked at it from that angle, but you're right. Anybody who leaves a CV exposed and alone prolly deserves to lose it, and in the meantime, it enjoys the benefits of being last in line, defensively....coolio....

I get the occassional missile lobbed at me too, evidence that the AI's are still building them at least now and again. Pretty punishing game, all in all...LOL...addicting, but punishing.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: Let's see how good Vel's memory is this morning....Western Carrier - Monsoon?

-V.

	01-08-2002 22:07									#16
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USS Monsoon it is... Good memory, Vel! (probably the result of oceans of coffee )

Any comments on posting a list of all changes to the standard ADMs here? That the cruise missiles are lethal is something that the player will find out fast enough, but there are other things that are less clear. For instance that a F15 is nearly as good as a bomber to bomb things...

Oh, I'm still wondering: do the AIs have the ability to build stealths? I haven't seen any yet, which might become another bug report
DeepO

	01-08-2002 22:21									#17
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Intriguing...the AI does have the ability to build stealths....curious that they are not!

As to posting the changes to ADM values....sure....my memory's not THAT good tho... Will have to do that when I'm next in the editor, but a very good plan!

I started with the notion that Subs and DD's needed to be useful in the modern age, and that Subs and DD's needed to be a "foil" for each other (a sub fightning a DD would prolly win, and likewise, a DD fighting a sub would prolly win. The advantage though, goes to the sub, who can see the DD without assistance, while the DD must grope around blindly to find the sub. This sets up the notion of combined arms (or at least combined fleet elements) on the high seas.

More later....I'm making a conscious effort not to ramble so much....

-=Vel=-

EDIT: Yeah....I was thinking at first that I had been too generous with the Americans by giving them an even more awesome f-15, but having been slogging through the scenario....I think not. It's an advantage, to be sure, but not an unbalancing one. Oh...if the forces were anything close to fairly matched, it'd be unbalancing, but as it stands now, it's just really mobile artillery for the USA....

	01-08-2002 22:35									#18
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Hmmm.... stealths... I'll wait a few more turns before I post anything on that, but so far none of the AIs have built any in my game. Come to think about it, they haven't build any more bombers as well. This could become better, once they have build whatever they needed to build first (policestations or so). I'm tempted to save my game, and go spying on them again, but that wouldn't be fair as I'm playing, not testing.

The subs/destroyers are nicely done, and I've used them exactly like that. What is double tricky is that you can't build nuclear subs from the start, so those are double precious... it may not work in every game, but in this scenario it surely adds to the challenge. And don't worry about the F15s, they're great. I am considering of building 2 or 3 additional carriers, to go hamper those massive air forces the Chinese are throwing at each ship that comes too close.

More and more, I am thinking of invading the Russians or the Germans once the time is right, they have bothered me for so long that simply escaping to the stars doesn't feel good enough

DeepO

	01-08-2002 22:42									#19
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Ohhhh boy do I know what you mean! Soon as my Anarchy period is up and I can actually start building troops again, I'm thinking seriously about opening up a big ol' can of whoopa$$ on somebody...Germany....Russia....haven't quite decided yet, but I'm getting kinna antsy with this whole hold-the-line mentality. It's fun....it's challenging, but payback's a b*itch, and the Russians and Germans have been dishing it out for the whole game so far....I'm looking forward to returning the favor soonish....

-=Vel=-

	01-08-2002 22:55									#20
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Yeah... For the game, I will still try to get a space ship victory, but if I can raze a few cities in the mean time... It is the first time I want to raze something, normally I always preserve what I conquer. But I'm in desperate need for some payback.

BTW Vel, congratulations on achieving Emperor status, even if it says moderator

DeepO

	01-08-2002 22:59									#21
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I know that feeling! Something about this game really has heightened the bloodthirsty barbarian in me....I'm eager to inflict some pain on my enemies....especially after suffering under the weight of soooo many attacks...UGH!

Was thinking of firing up the game and playing again tho, when I finish...something about a first turn nuke seems appealing....St. Pete REALLY stands out in my mind...

-=Vel=-

EDIT: I made Emperor? coolio!

	01-08-2002 23:00									#22
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I am obviously following the thread(s) with interest guys, though not contributing much. Just thought I'd interject that cruise missles, even unmodded, always had lethal bombard ability.

Catt

Edit: In re-reading my own post, it didn't seem clear to me. The unmodded CM doesn't have any of the "lethal bombard" flags checked - but apparently its "tactical missle" flag already covers lethal bombard. Even before the lethal bombard flag was created in v1.21, CMs could sink ships and destrooy land units.

Last edited by Catt on 01-08-2002 at 23:10

	01-08-2002 23:05									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks Catt... I should build those more. That's the second MT thread I'm saying this in, now I really have to do it once too

Vel, I was also playing with the idea of nuking on the first turn, but my target would either be Moscow (because of its air force), or Leipzig (because the initial German attack force goes there to load onto transports). I don't see why you want St. Petersburg, except maybe that you could take large parts of the initial attack force with you. Any specific reason why?

DeepO

	02-08-2002 00:23									#24
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Was thinking entirely in terms of a first turn nuke followed by a round of drafting MI's, followed by an immediate switch to republic. I figured that if I could take out the bulk of that initial attack force, I could maybe buy myself a sufficient amount of time to weather the anarchy storm and emerge stronger for it.

I figure that the russian airfarce (an intentional typo, btw... ) is pretty much toast anyway, since everything they fly onto American soil gets shot down...might take a few turns to nail them all, but we'll get there!

Anyway, the cornerstone of the plan was to get the anarchy out of the way asap, but somehow survive those early turns.

-=Vel=-

	02-08-2002 10:18									#25
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You know guys, after the first hundred or so MA you kill, it all gets the same. But, I tell you it's fun to go out and whack at the Germans and Russians.

In my game, after the first 8 waves were defeated, I invaded Russia and Germany. In Germany, I limited my assaults to just pillaging since he started throwing swarms of Marines at me. But, in Russia, oh lovely Russia, the Czarina left St. Petersburg weakly held. And, so, I razed it. That felt good. I thought about hitting Moscow, too, but I just decided to call it a day after one city.

I'm a sick puppy, I know.

btw, regarding stealths -- they will build them. Trust me, they will.

	02-08-2002 15:34									#26
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Brinoch, I think I have to replay it... I am in 3350 BC now, and still the MAs and MIs are giving me a hard time. It still is too close to being defeated each and every turn... but I think I know why: I have too much border to cover. Next time, I will retreat my forces to the second tier, this might be a better tactic then what I'm currently going through. There still is no chance of invading the Russians or Germans, and I can't muster enough forces to build a city on the uranium either. The final game is going a lot worse then my test games

About the stealths: I've shot down some extra 40 Russian bombers already over the past 10 turns, and still they haven't build a stealth... maybe they will come to their senses later on, but atm it is not the best of the AI on display. I'll keep an eye on it, though.

DeepO

	04-08-2002 04:28									#27
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DeepO, you're absolutely right. The first tier is a killer. I don't think I could have held on without the retreat the second tier. It not only gives you some needed breathing space, it also gives you an opportunity to hit the Russian and German forces which often stop in the hills or on the plains.

Also, are you out of Anarchy and into a new Republic yet? That anarchy is a killer. With the losses of units I sustained while in anarchy and no opportunity to replace them -- yikes, it was close.

As for the uranium, I didn't take it until I needed it. After discovering the tech, I moved in, built the city and left several units as blockers and some fortified MI in the city. I rushed a harbor (all I could afford) and started the Fuel Cells (and replacement Aegis, too). The next turn the city was dead and gone.

	04-08-2002 04:30									#28
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I'll post my save game on the AAR thread -- if I can figure it out.

Brin

	13-08-2002 22:30									#29
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^ Bump^

-=Vel=-

	12-06-2004 16:27									#30
	Conquests Update? Inflate your Upload Space

Just wondering if there is any way of converting this save file into something compatible with Conquests? This is one of the best scenarios I have played and I really wish I could do it with the new features in Conquests.