31-07-2002 09:48									#1
	Happiness Get a bigger avatar today!

I thought I new how happiness worked. If you had luxeries or lux tax it gave you happy people, certain improvements give you content people. But then in this game I'm playing write now I have a city with population 7. I have 5 luxeries and the market place which makes 9 happy people, and a temple which make one content person. So as a pop 7 all my citizen should be happy, should they not? But I only have 6 happy citizens and one unhappy citizen. Am I missunderstanding how happiness works or is something else going on here?

Attachment: unhappy600.jpg
This has been downloaded 237 time(s).

	31-07-2002 11:57									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Heaps things can trigger unhappiness. Click on the unhappy face to find out the problem.

Has that city always been yours? (Foreigners can be unhappy) On that note, are you at war? It says 'republic' on the shot so if you are it may be war weariness.

	31-07-2002 12:51									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by NeoStar Heaps things can trigger unhappiness. Click on the unhappy face to find out the problem. Has that city always been yours? (Foreigners can be unhappy) On that note, are you at war? It says 'republic' on the shot so if you are it may be war weariness.

The unhappy citizen says "100% "Its just way to crowded"".

The city has always been mine.

Not at war nor have I ever been at war this game so war weariness is not the problem.

Here's the same city later on in the game http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...es/unhappy2.jpg I used a link because to attach the pic you have to shrink it down so far its hard to see. The pop is now up to 12. I have 6 luxeries which should equate to 12 happy people, temple, cathedral, and Sistine Chapel which should equate to 7 content people, meaning I should have up to pop 19 with out any unhappy people. I have 10 happy, 1 content, and 1 unhappy.

	31-07-2002 13:35									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: I have 5 luxeries and the market place which makes 9 happy people,

The 5 luxuries give you 3 happy people when you have a marketplace and only 1 when you don’t. And I think that happiness also depends on the difficulty level that you play.

	31-07-2002 13:54									#5
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Og The 5 luxuries give you 3 happy people when you have a marketplace and only 1 when you don’t. And I think that happiness also depends on the difficulty level that you play.

I could be wrong but I don't think thats how it works, otherwise what would be the point of getting a sixth luxury if you have the marketplace or more than one if you don't. But I'm asking because I obviously don't know how it works.

As far as difficulty level this game is on regent, I looked at other saves on regent and noticed the same thing happening. I looked at two saves from warlord and one of them looked about the same as these games on regent and the other one had the right number of happy people but there were too few content people. I looked at one save from chiefton and it had too few happy people and too many content people.

	31-07-2002 14:04									#6
	Got spare money?

I just had a thought.

Could it be that a citizen has to be content before he is happy. This game is on regent and I believe that you get two free content people, plus seven content from temple, cathedral, and Sistine Chapel equals nine content citizens. Nine of my twelve happy faces make those nine content citizens happy. Two of the remaining three happy faces make the tenth citizen content and then happy. The last happy face makes the eleventh citizen content. Leaving the twevleth citizen unhappy.

Does this sound right, or was it just coincidense that the numbers worked out in this case?

	31-07-2002 14:12									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes, delsosi. That is exactly how it works. Nice to see you figured it out yourself.

Sir Og, each happy face from luxuries is counted, i.e. on the screenshot, the city gets 9 happy faces and would get 5 if they didn´t have a Marketplace. Conclusion: marketplaces are a must in bigger cities.

	31-07-2002 15:12									#8
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Hurricane Conclusion: marketplaces are a must in bigger cities.

They're a must anywhere mate, unless you want a negative economy

Not much else to know, delsolsi. Unhappiness has always been a big part of civ, but with luxuries the problem can be easily handled.

Not too much you can do about overcrowding. Not too much to worry about either. Big citites take a bit to riot.

	31-07-2002 22:39									#9
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by NeoStar They're a must anywhere mate, unless you want a negative economy Not much else to know, delsolsi. Unhappiness has always been a big part of civ, but with luxuries the problem can be easily handled. Not too much you can do about overcrowding. Not too much to worry about either. Big citites take a bit to riot.

I wasn't worried about my happiness. I was just trying to figure how it worked because I new it wasn't working how I thought it was. I'm normally happy as long as I don't have to have any entertainer's or spend money on the lux slider. I haven't noticed any difference between we love the king day and not haveing it.

	31-07-2002 22:57									#10
	Support Apolyton

quote: I haven't noticed any difference between we love the king day and not having it.

WLTKD can DOUBLE your production -- especially if you are generating only 1 shield due to corruption!

	01-08-2002 00:12									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe WLTKD can DOUBLE your production -- especially if you are generating only 1 shield due to corruption!

Are there other factors to the increased production other than WLTKD, because I have never noticed this. Just to make sure I looked at the game I'm currently playing, went to a city that didn't have WLTKD, took a screen shot http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...es/preWLTKD.jpg . Then I turned up the lux slider to induce WLTKD, I waited a couple of turns, then went back to the city and found that I had the same production. Heres a screen shot of the city during WLTKD http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/_uimages/WLTKD.jpg .

EDIT: fixed links.

	01-08-2002 00:21									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by delsolsi Are there other factors to the increased production other than WLTKD, because I have never noticed this. Just to make sure I looked at the game I'm currently playing, went to a city that didn't have WLTKD, took a screen shot http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...es/preWLTKD.jpg . Then I turned up the lux slider to induce WLTKD, I waited a couple of turns, then went back to the city and found that I had the same production. Heres a screen shot of the city during WLTKD http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/_uimages/WLTKD.jpg . EDIT: fixed links.

I was just looking at the screen shots again and noticed that the total number of shields didn't change, but during WLTKD there was one less shield lost to corruption.

	01-08-2002 00:41									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

WLTKD reduces shield wastage by 25%. Without WLTKD in your first screen shot, you're only losing 2 shields - I wouldn't have been surprised to see wastage unchanged (25% of 2 is 0.5).

A better lesson on the powers of WLTKD would be to look at one of your outlying cities, preferably one that produces a fair number of shields (10 plus), but that also loses a lot of shields to waste. Induce a WLTKD in that city and you will better appreciate a celebrating empire.

Catt

Edited for typos.

Last edited by Catt on 01-08-2002 at 00:48

	01-08-2002 00:59									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yet another fine effect of WLTKD is a (highly?) reduced pollution. In one of my past games, I was in a peaceful democracy. I had all my cities producing as much as possible (I always have... ), while having almost all the luxuries and even 10% of my income allocated to luxury. A nation-wide WLTKD. Even though I was well into the industrial era, having factories everywhere, there was almost no pollution... until one of my neighbours (happily supplying me with two precious luxuries until the very turn) declared war on me. I lost WLTKD in most cities and pollution started to appear right and left, up and down... I couldn't believe it was just a coincidence, WLTKD must affect pollution levels, too...

	01-08-2002 06:44									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

Perhaps waste not only means being unefficient, but perhaps also means industrial waste?

	01-08-2002 09:57									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Yet another fine effect of WLTKD is a (highly?) reduced pollution. [...] I couldn't believe it was just a coincidence, WLTKD must affect pollution levels, too...

I don't buy it. First of all, it makes no sense (I could see the opposite: that pollution would make people unhappy, but I don't believe the game does that either). Second of all, I've had similar situations (going into and/or out of WLTKD's), and I saw no affect on pollution. I think it was a coincidence.

	02-08-2002 21:37									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Catt WLTKD reduces shield wastage by 25%. Without WLTKD in your first screen shot, you're only losing 2 shields - I wouldn't have been surprised to see wastage unchanged (25% of 2 is 0.5). A better lesson on the powers of WLTKD would be to look at one of your outlying cities, preferably one that produces a fair number of shields (10 plus), but that also loses a lot of shields to waste. Induce a WLTKD in that city and you will better appreciate a celebrating empire. Catt Edited for typos.

Agreed. WLTK is very useful in cities with shield loss due to corruption. I use it a lot to build courthouses, marketplaces, temples, etc.

The biggest problem with WLTK is that it is very difficult to KEEP your city in WLTK mode. As soon as population increases or a mega-empire change happens, you have to go back to that city. Even when you have pop-ups enabled like I do, you too often have to poke around and figure out which city's 'happiness status' changed.

Civ2 had an advisor report which didn't pop up then disappear during the production cycle messages. Another example of unnecessary tedium in Civ3. There should be a 'mood' change report which you can access anytime to see what changed in a city and figure out how to change it. Why should I have to get a glance of a pop up message and then start poking around to find that city. F1 is useless if you have lots of cities and trying to discern a content from an unhappy citizen can be difficult. A report that you can click on would have reduced a lot of unncessary tedium to keep a city in WLTK mode.

	02-08-2002 22:15									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by heidlejohn Trying to discern a content from an unhappy citizen can be difficult.

Try this little graphic mod: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=34323

	03-08-2002 00:28									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You can click on the unhappy faces to see why their happy!?!?!?!

You learn something new everyday...

	04-08-2002 11:12									#20
	Put an end to popups!

Happiness is always the universal problem