01-08-2002 17:32									#1
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Plan Gold, as it as been approved does not provide for the building of galleys. Nevertheless a galley, the first of how many - nobody knows -, is under construction in Termina. I understand that galleys have been chosen for the fun (Uber dixit), but IMHO it is not enough to justify all the risks and costs associated with sea transport, without a clear approval by the people.

	01-08-2002 18:01									#2
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A galley has nothing to do with Plan Gold. It can as well be used for exploration (which would be about time!), for instance for Uber island. Maybe we find good land there? And the corruption will also be low.

	01-08-2002 18:25									#3
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I may be wrong but I am under the impression that no formal plan for exploration has been approved yet. It is why I refer to Plan Gold. I am glad that galleys have nothing to do with it.

	01-08-2002 19:01									#4
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It's also worth pointing out that we are not building a galley for exploration merely for "fun." We want to chance a crossing to explore the landmass to our south -- there may well be resources to be had, or early communication with uncontacted civs (a huge advantage at the bargaining table). This is a strategic project, with minimal (initial) investment, and a potentially huge payoff.

	01-08-2002 20:04									#5
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We could also use Galleys to land an attack force inside of France. This would mean we could take the french city close to the sea, has alot of grassland surrounding it, I thinkg it is called Orleans. As to the dangers of Galleys transporting, they are next to nothing. The AI, to my experience rarely launches an attack on one of your galleys with one of its own, and even if it did, the chances are 50% of winning. The danger of the Galley sinking is zero, since we would simply be hugging the coast line. The only real downside, is the amount of resourcess we would have to devote to the task of building a fleet of a stature that could transport a stack, probably 3 to 4 galleys.

	01-08-2002 20:46									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Papa Chubby As to the dangers of Galleys transporting, they are next to nothing. The AI, to my experience rarely launches an attack on one of your galleys with one of its own

True. But then, there is the possibility a barbarian galley would take us on. They do pop up, and always attack when they can.
Still, the risk is worth transporting troops, if it gives us a tactical edge.

	01-08-2002 21:06									#7
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Papa Chubby,

There is no such plan, and nevertheless we are building galley(s). I can only conclude that the executive branch has his own and secret list of priorities.
50% chances of loosing during transport is exactly what I qualify unacceptable unless we can't stricty do otherwise. And you have also to consider the barbarian galleys.

	01-08-2002 21:22									#8
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I thought we were building galleys to transport units to the mountains near Paris so that we could take a direct line through mountains to Paris w/o risk of being attacked.

	01-08-2002 21:40									#9
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This would have been an important feature of the plan, costing shields and time, and must have been mentionned in the poll. But apparently, the galley currently build is for exploratory purpose only.

	01-08-2002 21:56									#10
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Actually, I created a petition for the building of a Galley, and it got enough support that apparently the Government is actually building one.

	01-08-2002 22:20									#11
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These galleys will serve an exploratory purpose, once their military usefulness is over : we are to disembark troops on French shores to attack Orleans and Paris with 2 separate stacks during the same turn. This strategy has been designed by Uber, and has several merits :
- Our troops to Paris (probalby swordsmen) will come quickly to French shores. They'll move on mountains then, having a +100% defense. They'll attack Paris without suffering from the river
- We'll have a separate stack at Orleans (possibly archers). This way, we'll be able to win 2 cities in a row, without risking a counterstarke. We'll be able to sue for immediate peace, before the French really prepare for a fight.
- the Galleys (2 must be built) will have an exploratory mission as soon as our troops are disembarked. They'll look for new lands to settle, and new riches to grab.

Overall, I think these 2 galleys are not waste, on the contrary.

	02-08-2002 02:15									#12
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I am lost ; there is a Plan Gold duly approved which will not be executed (just for ennemy disinformtion probably), and another anonymous plan intending to attack Paris with 4 units, or more if the galleys go back and forth between Termina and the landing site.
I can imagine the next headline of the Gazette : People no longer kept informed of military plans !

	02-08-2002 02:24									#13
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You write it, I'll print it.

However, for your convenience: This is the SMC plan. See how galleys drop off 4 Swords to march directly to Paris, assuring us that Paris is the first target.

Plan Gold, like case (insert color) is largely a production plan to assemble the army, not the tactics of how the army is to be used. It basically states building warriors and mass upgrading. The bits about tactics are discussion, not the actual plan. The plan will likely change to fit the stituation 20 turns from now. I hope that this clears up any of your confusion.

PS, I propose we call the SMC plan "Uber's Maneuver" from here on...

	02-08-2002 04:46									#14
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I don't see the point of building an expensive galley now to only transport two units. That's all I have to say.

	02-08-2002 05:10									#15
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx I propose we call the SMC plan "Uber's Maneuver" from here on...

Or "Uber-neuver," for short.

	02-08-2002 05:20									#16
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It seems that it would take many turns before we finish building two swordsmen. In the meantime, shouldn't we use our galleys (once we have them) to explore and colonize Uber Isle rather than let them sit idly?

	02-08-2002 05:37									#17
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Shiber: We're not really building swordsmen. Rather, we're building warriors and upgrading to swordsmen once we get the iron linked up. Money doesn't seem to be much of an issue here.

	02-08-2002 11:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx You write it, I'll print it. However, for your convenience: This is the SMC plan. See how galleys drop off 4 Swords to march directly to Paris, assuring us that Paris is the first target. Plan Gold, like case (insert color) is largely a production plan to assemble the army, not the tactics of how the army is to be used. It basically states building warriors and mass upgrading. The bits about tactics are discussion, not the actual plan. The plan will likely change to fit the stituation 20 turns from now. I hope that this clears up any of your confusion. PS, I propose we call the SMC plan "Uber's Maneuver" from here on...

I don’t want to be nasty or anything unpleasant (with a journalist you have better be cautious :lol, but for a man in the street like me, the confusion is just slightly increased : there is now another formally approved plan, the SMC plan, and the Gold Plan is nothing more than a production plan totally mute on the galleys matter.

	02-08-2002 13:56									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Shiber: We're not really building swordsmen. Rather, we're building warriors and upgrading to swordsmen once we get the iron linked up. Money doesn't seem to be much of an issue here.

You are absolutely right. I forgot about this.
Now it seems that we should keep the galley waiting.

	02-08-2002 14:16									#20
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The 2nd galley should be ready when Iron is connected, or a bit sooner

	02-08-2002 14:28									#21
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Who is in charge of the galleys once they complete their military purpose?

	02-08-2002 14:48									#22
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IIRC the SMC

	02-08-2002 16:47									#23
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Since the SMC was in charge of land exploration, I assume he'll be in charge of sea exploration

	02-08-2002 17:13									#24
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Please excuse my blatant ignorance, but what does SMC stand for?

	02-08-2002 17:48									#25
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Supreme Military Commander


I think Uber just wasnt happy enough with Minister of Military...

quote: there is now another formally approved plan, the SMC plan, and the Gold Plan is nothing more than a production plan totally mute on the galleys matter.

That is mostly right. Plan Gold, while it does not mention the Galley's, is really a plan to build 10(? can't remember exact #) warriors to be upgraded once Iron is connected. Uber believes that we can build 2 galley's in the same time and then use those galleys to give us a direct shot at Paris, thereby destroying most of the production capabilities.

	02-08-2002 17:50									#26
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SMC : Supreme Military Commander : UberKrux

In charge of sea exploration by assumption ? Interesting, I'd like to see him in a galley starting around the world

	02-08-2002 18:58									#27
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In case anyone was wondering:
Time until we have iron in all our connected cities: 9 turns.
Cost of upgrading a warrior to swordsmen: 40 gold.

	02-08-2002 19:02									#28
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How many warriors are we going to upgrade to swordsmen anyway? I know the plan is to build 10 warriors, but surely you can't be serious about upgrading 10 warriors to swordsmen. It'll cost us 400 gold and would leave us with dead-end units (there are no upgrades for swordsmen) which would mean we'll have to strike another foe quickly or else our swordsmen will become obsolete in the next era.

	02-08-2002 19:03									#29
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Which is why I was against the plan, but the majority have spoken.

	02-08-2002 19:16									#30
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lets look at something

we have a potential tech-whore plan to get us into the Medieval era... next turnchat.

that means wonderous nations like France pottentially will have pikemen in 9 turns. That makes a swordsmen rush just that more unplausible (is that a word?).

And, by the time we have swordsmen on their borders, how far will they be from Knights? how far will we be?

There is quite a lot that can go wrong. We won't be having any more Battles of Washington or New York IMHO. A war on France could get interesting, and not in a pleasant way.