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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Yet again, Palestinian Claims Are Proven to Be False By the UN.
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Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:21
Thumbs up  Old Post 02-08-2002 01:04
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Yet again, Palestinian Claims Are Proven to Be False By the UN. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Posting for Siro.

quote:
UN report rejects claims of Jenin massacre
Staff and agencies
Thursday August 1, 2002


A UN report into the fighting in the Jenin refugee camp will reject Palestinian claims of an Israeli massacre, but will criticise both sides for putting civilian lives at risks, western diplomats said today.
The violence in the camp came during an Israeli offensive in the West Bank, launched after a suicide bomb attack that killed 29 Israelis.

The Jenin incursion, which began in early April, was the heaviest fighting in Israel's six-week campaign that began on March 29 this year. The Israeli army lost 23 soldiers in the camp and, in the weeks after the battle, the Palestinian cabinet minister, Saeb Erekat, said that 500 people had been killed.

The UN report, prepared by the secretary general, Kofi Annan, after Israel refused a fact-finding mission access to the camp, said 52 Palestinian deaths had been confirmed by April 18, and that up to half may have been civilians.

It called the Palestinian allegation "a figure that has not been substantiated in the light of evidence that has emerged", the diplomats said.

Israel, which had repeatedly denied any massacre took place, praised the report. It had previously claimed that 22 Palestinian gunmen were killed in the fighting.

"Israel welcomes this finding, as well as the determination that the armed Palestinians deliberately took up position in a densely populated locality," a spokesman for the Israeli foreign ministry, Jonathan Peled, said.

The Palestinian planning minister, Nabil Shaath, called the report an "important step" but criticised Israel's earlier refusal to cooperate with the UN.

"I know it does not satisfy everybody and that it was not done in the way it should be, which is sending a commission to Jenin," he said.

The report also looks into attacks on Palestinian cities by the Israeli army during the campaign.

It says that 497 Palestinians were killed during Israel's incursion into the West Bank, according to the diplomats, almost double the death toll of 262 reported by the Red Crescent Society in the Palestinian territories for the same period.

Israel is also accused of increasing the suffering of Palestinian civilians by imposing curfews, closing off cities and delaying access to medical care and humanitarian aid.

Palestinian militants are charged with deliberately putting their fighters and equipment in civilian areas in violation of international law.

The report is based on information from UN officials, the Palestinians, five UN member states, private relief organisations and documents in the public domain.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 01:07
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Does this mean that Israel will be more cooperative with UN investigations from now on?

Toasty is offline Toasty
Chieftain

Jan 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 01:11
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Yeah, sure, Isreal will cooperate with the UN...

Stefu is offline Stefu
Emperor
CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Jan 1970
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 01:13 Visit Stefu's homepage!
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...and houses will be red, violets will be blue and furious monkeys will fly out of my ass...

Jaakko is offline Jaakko
King
in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 01:43
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But I thought the UN was an Evil Anti-Semitic Arab Lackey, who is not to be trusted?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 02:19
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. Noone ever said that , Jaakko.

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 02:25
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quote:
But I thought the UN was an Evil Anti-Semitic Arab Lackey, who is not to be trusted?


And even they agree with Israel.

Jaakko is offline Jaakko
King
in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 02:35
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Mine was just a variant of Dino's troll.

Anyways, if you do not trust the UN's methods (as evidenced by your distrust of the Ahtisaari commission), then why is this conclusion any more reliable?
Relying on preconception doesn't tell of an analytical mind, people...

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 02:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaakko

Relying on preconception doesn't tell of an analytical mind, people...


"Never assume what you are trying to prove, unless you are trying to prove that you are a bonehead."

Jaakko is offline Jaakko
King
in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 02:54
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Bah, Eli & co. just need a nudge to start elaborating on their reasoning, which I provided.

Hueij is offline Hueij
Emperor
Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 04:36
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Any chance you tell us where that quote came from?

And I agree with you, claiming it was a massacre while it turned out it was only 50+ people killed...

Good too to not mention that the report had some "nice" things to say about the IDF too...

All in all you get a from me....

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 04:51
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Well, at the time, I recall seeing interviews on TV with several Palestinian representative that I thought were restrained and reasonable people. They all insisted, as does CyberGnu, that hundreds were being killed in Jenin. These claims have proven to be false. And yet at the time these moderate government officians did not say that they "believed" there as a massacre going on, they said there were in fact hundreds killed.

Well, I now know that one cannot rely on anything a Palestinian government official says, even if he or she seems moderate and restrained. These people care nothing for the truth. They care more about spin and formenting hate against Israel.

It is good that this UN report has confirmed the truth of what actually happened. It is also shows the power of a free press.

Hueij is offline Hueij
Emperor
Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 04:58
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quote:
It is good that this UN report has confirmed the truth of what actually happened. It is also shows the power of a free press.

Yeah... And it also shows that people only read what they want to read... Like you skipping the parts about the IDF...

Anyways, this is a UN report, so why do y'all bother about it at all? The UN being a kommie and anti-American organisation and all?

CyberGnu is offline CyberGnu
King
of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 06:18 Visit CyberGnu's homepage!
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Ned, where on earth did you get that idea that I claim hundreds of people died in Jenin?

CyberGnu is offline CyberGnu
King
of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 06:26 Visit CyberGnu's homepage!
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However, the officials in the PA only repeated what the people coming out of Jenin told them. These were people who just escaped a warzone, notoriously unreliable as eyewitnesses. The PA initialy refused to comment on their tales of massacres, and only when it was clear that many palestinians did believe them did the PA demand a UN investigations in alleged massacres in Jenin.

But, in old israeli tradition, who are we to allow reality to smudgeon our conclusions about lying palestinians?

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaakko
Mine was just a variant of Dino's troll.

Anyways, if you do not trust the UN's methods (as evidenced by your distrust of the Ahtisaari commission), then why is this conclusion any more reliable?
Relying on preconception doesn't tell of an analytical mind, people...


It's not that they trust the UN, it's that many people here do. Of course, it seems to show that those who claim to trust the UN only do so when it supports what they want to believe, which would lead one to think that they are anti-what's that word?

CyberGnu is offline CyberGnu
King
of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 07:48 Visit CyberGnu's homepage!
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Wait, who here isn't trusting the UN? Is this just another case of projection?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 08:07
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberGnu
Wait, who here isn't trusting the UN?
The Israelis.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 08:12
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I see the Israeli ACS spinmiesters are at work. Those schmucks. Eli I guess you forgot about the part where Israel blocked ambulances, food, etc?


(just trying to be fair)

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:05
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This part seems to be skimmed over by Eli:

quote:

The report also looks into attacks on Palestinian cities by the Israeli army during the campaign.

It says that 497 Palestinians were killed during Israel's incursion into the West Bank, according to the diplomats, almost double the death toll of 262 reported by the Red Crescent Society in the Palestinian territories for the same period.


There was indeed a massacre.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:08
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since when is 500 deaths a massacre when there was fighting

Jon Miller

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:09
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If the US did it I would expect higher numbers, those are really low

Jon Miller

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:11 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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You guys called it a massacre when five people died in Boston, as I recall...

EDIT: reworded

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:26
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Ya well the population of boston was what? 1500?

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:28
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btw who are "you guys". Im getting really sick of people on this forum lumping the actions of ancestors together with people today.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:29
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Try closer to 50,000, at least, fg.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:32
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who cares

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
since when is 500 deaths a massacre when there was fighting

Jon Miller


By your logic, then, it's a-ok for Palestinian suicide bombers to carry out their deeds.

As long as we treat both sides equally, it's fine with me.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:33
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Of course its fine with you. You hate Israel and you dont really care about palestine. You just hope they can kill as many israeli's as possible.

Moral Equivlancy is crap

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 09:38
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well, that was because we wanted a rebellion

it was all PR

a lot more died when Britain tried to take our cities

also there were a lot less people arround back then

what is true is that taking urban (or rural) areas of a hostile populace will result in deaths, no ifs ands or buts about it

the question than becomes, to determine wether it is a massacre or not, is wether the number of deaths was uneedfully high

Jon Miller

 
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