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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:21
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REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
That's true as well. But that always happens when people try to be free from the opressors. |
Also when they try to oppress in turn as is what happened in Europe.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Without reformation, we would still be stucked in the dark ages. |
The Renaisance came first. The Dark Ages were over by Luther's time.
quote:
About name calling, I never do that, not even someone did it to me. |
For a rebuttal.
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you forgot to mention the master troll in Alexanders Horse. |
That counts as name calling. Well maybe not. Is it name calling if its true? And would that save AH from name calling in your case?
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
The pope sets the rules. |
Those have been the rules for a very long time. This pope did not set the rules. I think it has been that way for centuries.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
So what? |
Are you really a lawyer Ned. That was pretty inept.
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This Pope is Jesus Christ representative on planet earth. If you do not like it to bad. |
That was I was replying to.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
and the pope is of course infalliable |
Only when speaking Ex-Cathedra. Which has happened twice. I am pretty sure the present rules weren't one of those occasions.
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Ethelred
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quote:
This is a major shift in the Catholic Church. The pope's successor should continue in this direction, seeking common ground rather than confrontation. |
That is not the same as allowing other religious organizations to have a say in the next Pope. That would be like Microsoft allowing Sun to vote on who succeeds Bill Gates should the the two ever try to get along but not merge. I don't see the Orthodox Churches and the Roman Catholic Church merging anytime soon and for those guys soon is a century.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
Sorry for my ignorance but does this mean the pope is only infalliable when he choses to be, or just on certain topics? |
It means that the Pope must specify that he is speaking infallibly. If he doesn't do so later Popes have the opportunity to overturn a decision. The Catholic would be even more resistant to change if it was otherwise.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm
Well apparently the Pope not only doesn't have to specify but never has, see the next link. However it still can't be changed but then again this guy has fuzzed it up enough that what is Ex-Cathedra can be open to debate since the Pope doesn't have to make it clear.
http://net2.netacc.net/~mafg/magist02.htm
Much better but also has at least potential logical problems. Here is the one I spotted anyway.
quote:
(2) Dogmatic facts -- for example, the truth of certain historical facts, such as the validity of a papal election or of a particular general council; a declaration that a certain proposition is false, or that a certain work contains error. Canonizations could also go here. |
If Canonizations are to be considered infallible then the Pope has failed to achieve that goal as a number of Saints are no longer saints at all. Saint Nicholas for one and Saint George for another have both been declared to be dubious at best. I get the impression from that one site that bets are being hedged but there is no way the author was going to admit it.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
1560 the dark ages were over? |
Yes. They end with the Renaisance or perhaps even before the Crusades which led to the Renaisance. By that time trade had begun again. States capable of protecting trade existed.
By 1500 there were colonies New World. The Dark Ages were literly a thing of the past and had been for quite a while.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
yeah, but see, the pop already has it so that only the cardinals vote.
some cardinals are archbishops, true, but that's only their acting position; their rank is actually higher.
for instance, cardinal francis acts as an archbishop of chicago, but his rank is a cardinal.
and all cardinals also have an "archbishop" position at a church in rome, which is pretty much just ceremonial. |
Cardinals were orignailly the most important priests attached to the 28 large Roman provinces known in the late Empire as Dioceses. Bishops were the head of the church in a large community. Archbishops were the head of the church in a large metropolitan city, and typically had supervisory authority over bishops in territory administered by the Roman exarch.
Over time, the role of Cardinal changed as the Empire collapsed. They because the leading priests personally attached to the Pope. Today, as you said, one can be a Cardinal without being an Archbishop and one can be an Archbishop without being a Cardinal.
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02-08-2002 16:19
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I'm doing my best.
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