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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Smith
Yes, but but there are still the Roman Curia cardinals, like Ratzinger,  , who dont have dioceses but still get votes. Thats where a lot of the problems are, like softening the draft stand on pedophelia.
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Quite true and this Pope has been conservative, authoritarian and a centraliser, creating an environment in which people like Ratzinger thrive.
But if you want my bet the Vatican is going to get rolled back when this Pope leaves. As I mentioned, the Bishops are the key guys and there is a lot resentment of Rome out there. They know they don't have to put up with it but the feeling is let John Paul II go out with dignity. There is also a feeling that things must change on a lot of doctrinal issues like celibacy, women priest, birth control and the like. I expect there will be change, possibly quite rapid change.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland
"... the 28 large Roman provinces known in the late Empire as Dioceses."
Quite fascinating. Can you give me a list of all 28 Dioceses of the late roman empire ?  |
Roland, Here is the quote from the Cath. Encyc. It does seem true that the heads of the most important churches throughout the empire were Cardinals. This may not have been entirely aligned with the Roman dioceses, of which there were, approximately 12 IIRC. However, I do beleive the head of the church at the capital of a Roman Empire Diocese was a cardinal, at least to the extent it was under the "jurisdiction" of the Bishop of Rome.
"Until late in the Middle Ages the title of cardinal was given to prominent priests of important churches, e. g., at Constantinople, Milan, Ravenna, Naples, Sens, Trier, Magdeburg, and Cologne (cf. G. Phillips, Kirchenrecht, Ratisbon, 1845 sq., VI, 41 sqq.; P. Hinschius, "Das Kirchenrecht der Katholiken und Protestanten in Deutschland", Berlin, 1869, I, 318 sqq.). In keeping with this custom we find the term Cardinalis applied at Rome from the end of the fifth century to priests permanently attached to the (twenty-five to twenty-eight) Roman tituli, or quasi-parishes (quasi diœceses), belonging to the church of the Bishop of Rome, the pope–therefore to the Cardo ecclesia par excellence–in which tituli the Sacraments of Baptism and Penance were administered, and which were also often called tituli cardinales."
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Dan Severn
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Wellborn, Texas The Warrior Dennis Miller
May 2001
time: 23:21
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Actually, the dark ages lasted from about 500 to 1000. In that time, there was constant strife and war amongst barbarian kingdoms. But as the second millennium rolled around, there was a shift from warlords to Monarchies. This period from 1000 to 1460 is more realistically referred to as the middle ages. THere were great advancements in art, literature, and science. War was a larger affair than it had been in hundreds of years, with the first indications of standing armies being created. But still, print was expensive, and education still the domain of the very wealthy. But the changes set in motion readied Europe for the renaissance of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
this is how vatican 2 could be justified, and, indeed, accepted throughout the catholic world. |
Would you care to tell that to many Catholics that still have a Latin mass or at least desire one? There a web sites covering this issue. I stumbled across one anyway a year or so ago. It is mostly accepted though.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
the protestants did not oppress the europeans.
Under the protestants there came freedom of religions |
You are kidding yourself on this just like you did in your errors regarding the length of the Dark Ages. Check out the Thiry Years War sometime. Check out the English Civil War.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
eh?
vatican 2 does not prohibit latin masses. |
It discouraged them at the very least for general use.
quote:
all i said was that it could be justified and accepted.. |
All I did was point out that some didn't fully accept it. Some people still don't eat meat on Fridays in the US.
quote:
. i didn't say that it had to be accepted with pleasure and much rejoicing.. |
Accepting doesn't include protest sites. I did say it was MOSTLY accepted not that there was a great turmoil from the masses of Catholics. Catholics aren't supposed to use birth controll either but France has had a stable population for over 100 years showing that at least some Catholics (besides my parents and hordes of other Americans) don't accept that either and it is doctrine.
quote:
so what the conflict here? |
I didn't claim there was a big conflict just that there was some.
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
At last Mark, a crazy catholic has shown up |
Not crazy but with some knowledge and a lot older than you.
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November Adam
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Calgary, AB, Canada
Jul 2001
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
That issue, and al lot of other issues, such as celibacy, should be settled once and for all by an ecumenical council where all Christain sects are invited to attend. But the best way avoid the "primacy" of the pope issue is to make it clear that the office elected and all Christains, East and West, are eligible. Perhaps John Paul ought to say, now, that all archbishops and patriarchs of all sects, Catholic or not, are eligible electors. Now that really would be something. |
But Ned, Protestants don't want a Pope, seems silly to run, when the Pope issue is one of the reasons different Protestant groups formed.
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
quote:
This Pope is Jesus Christ representative on planet earth. If you do not like it to bad. |
Says who? The pope?
C'mon, The Holy Ghost is the representative on this planet. Not any human. |
One day the twelve were sitting with Jesus and Jesus ask who am'I and Peter said you are the son of the living God and Jesus answer him and said upon this rock I shall build my church. Since Pope John is now sitting in Peter position, he is head of the Catholic church.
quote:
quote:
Keep this in mind, our lord God started the Jewish Church and Jesus started the Catholic Church, all other churches were started my a man. |
God didn't start any church. |
Ok I used Church instead of Religion
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And I can't find the phrase 'roman catholic church' anywhere in the bible. Besides that, there are too many foolish things going on in the RCC to claim it's the only true church. Praying to Maria, celibate, just to name two. |
The word Catholic is latin for Universal Church, the old name of our church until M. Luther and King Henry VIII.
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quote:
When Jesus decides to take John Paul, he will, without any help from any of us. |
That's true 
[q]When Jesus Christ decides this church need a change, he will make his though know to all of us.[/q
You might have missed Maarten Luther, a few centuries ago |
Luther was a priest who felt the church needed some changes. He himself did not break away and told his follower not to break away but work within for change. After his dead the follower broke away and started the Luthern Religion. King Henry broke away because he wanted to get rid of his wife and take another and the Pope said no. In case some people miss it, the bible said one marriage for all, no divorce.
(Some of the earlier Popes were not as good as they could have been).
quote:
And about the pope, I don't care about him in any christian way. Of course it's important for the global issues. But hey, he's not Jesus' representative on earth. I like him though. After all he's a christian, that's a good thing. |
That is to bad. If he is sitting in Peter chair, then he must be Jesus rep. on earth.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph1944
That is to bad. If he is sitting in Peter chair, then he must be Jesus rep. on earth. |
Only if
Jesus is still around in some way but not able to represent himself. In other words not really dead from my point of view.
AND Jesus actually wants to be represented on Earth.
AND Jesus actually accepts the Pope as his representitive.
Protestants like to point out this passage the is in the same chapter as the one you paraphrased.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Which does not exactly say good things about the alleged rock upon which the church is claimed to have been built. Then again the Church was really built upon Paul and not Peter or it would still be only for Jews.
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Bereta_Eder
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Catholic is greek not latin as is 80% of latin.
Katholikos (=universal)
Kath = by Olos = whole
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Catholic is greek not latin as is 80% of latin.
Katholikos (=universal)
Kath = by Olos = whole |
Thank you, I though it was latin. Was never told otherwise.
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02-08-2002 20:17
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