30-08-2002 16:27									#421
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I have heard it said he lacks that little bit of pace, to go with the undoubted skills, that could have pushed him into international contention? At club level that isn’t so critical of course, particularly at both ACT and Tigers where he has quick men linking either side?

Well, he's never been greased lightning. But I remember now that he badly injured himself - broken leg? - just as he looked like he was going to get an opportunity. From memory, he missed most of a season. That really set him back.

quote: I never faced a RFU disciplinary hearing myself but I do have some tales of foul play and my manful efforts to break it up.

"Red Mist" Havak? The peacemaker? Not what I've heard.

quote: Have to keep it for another day those – very busy day ahead of me (and behind you? The time difference freaks me out sometimes)

It's really very simple. When you've got daylight savings, we're 9 hours ahead. When we've got daylight savings, we're 11 hours ahead.

quote: Bizaree isn’t it that such a drubbing could have resulted in some good?

Things usually happen that way. Acid tests are applied. Some dissolve, some don't.

quote: that was the ‘tour of death’

One of the more imbecilic events in modern rugby times, I thought.

quote: And in other news not only do I get to see Tigers opening league game (away to Leeds) on Sky tomorrow they are also showing the Canterbury NPC game live in the morning.

Cripes, Leeds isn't that far away! Why aren't you going?

BTW, I found an NPC match on FoxSports last night. Waikato -v- West Harbour. I was too tired to watch. So that's an NPC match and a Currie Cup match they've shown recently. Are your games all daytime affairs, Havak?

quote: And finally the ARU is enticing the Bok under 21 captain to move to Australia and quailfy whilst with ACT. More despicable border hopping - Australians should play for Australia!!

Hmmm. I hadn't heard about this. Not another darn winger, I hope.

	30-08-2002 17:13									#422
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quote: From memory, he missed most of a season. That really set him back.

I think you are right - he came to us once he was fit again.

quote: "Red Mist" Havak? The peacemaker? Not what I've heard.

You never saw the sides I played in. I'm a peaceful lamb in comparison to my old comrades.

quote: It's really very simple. When you've got daylight savings, we're 9 hours ahead. When we've got daylight savings, we're 11 hours ahead.

But do you gain it as we lose it? And vcie versa. Doh!

quote: One of the more imbecilic events in modern rugby times, I thought.

Perhaps even the most I would agree. With maybe the exception of NZ's handling of the joint world cup process?

We should never have toured that summer, the entire senior squad needed resting after the Lions tour the previous summer. Hell the coach did not want to tour. Guess who forced it - thats right our friends the RFU who signed up a boys club to fill the part.

Loved the acid test line btw - you should be a writer.

quote: Cripes, Leeds isn't that far away! Why aren't you going?

Well don't card me here - but they share the ground of the other code club in Leeds and I will not allow myself to be tainted like that.

I don't make many away games at all - we tend to get maybe 500 tickets between 12000 members - it's a bun fight.

Unfortunately TV dictates out k/o times, and some clubs have funny ideas (all Sale home games are on Friday nights so 'players' can attend who are playing the next day!). The standard k/o is 3pm Saturday, but the telvised Saturday game will generally be 2pm, and you get league games on Friday and Saturday evenings, and Sunday afternoons too. The same old mess where Tv is involved.

The player I mentioned is Rathbone who I think is a centre? But he has captained the Bok U-21s for gawds sake - the boy is a Bok. Lets stop this nonsense already?

	30-08-2002 17:45									#423
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quote: Originally posted by Havak But do you gain it as we lose it? And vcie versa. Doh!

How very ... Queenslander ... of you, Havak. I gather the extra hour of daylight is packed up in a carton and sent between the hemispheres.

quote: Perhaps even the most I would agree. With maybe the exception of NZ's handling of the joint world cup process?

Mmmm. Close go, that one. They both buggered the game in the respective countries in their own way.

quote: Loved the acid test line btw - you should be a writer.

Old habits!

quote: Well don't card me here - but they share the ground of the other code club in Leeds and I will not allow myself to be tainted like that.

That's an acceptable reason.

quote: I don't make many away games at all - we tend to get maybe 500 tickets between 12000 members - it's a bun fight.

That's extraordinary. One of the downsides of such a developed comp. Anyone can wander into a club game here. It's one of the nice, quaint things about our club footy. Everything's all very low-key and honorary. Apart from the match itself, of course.

quote: The standard k/o is 3pm Saturday, but the telvised Saturday game will generally be 2pm, and you get league games on Friday and Saturday evenings, and Sunday afternoons too. The same old mess where Tv is involved.

Mmm. Just wondering. If we ever get one on FoxSports here it will be a replay anyway.

quote: The player I mentioned is Rathbone who I think is a centre? But he has captained the Bok U-21s for gawds sake - the boy is a Bok. Lets stop this nonsense already?

It's pretty ridiculous. At least Dan Vickerman - the young second-rower - moved here from SA when his family did. It was entirely unsolicited. What's the residential qualification these days anyway? The guy's going to miss a lot of rep rugby.

Edit. I just checked out the Rathbone story. He's coming off contract with the Sharks and the Brumbies are sniffing around. And his grandmother's Australian. Oh well, it could be another one of those Jones-Hughes/Wales sagas. OTOH, I suspect the Boks will make it more than worth his while to stay.

Edit. I was just looking at the Wallaby -v- England history. It's quite extraordinary. They first played in 1928, then not again till 1948, then not again till 1958. They played twice in the 1960s, and only into the 1970s did the matches become anything like regular events. I mean, I know travel wasn't just a matter of jumping on a plane in the early days, but 20 years is a dang long time between the first two games.

	30-08-2002 18:07									#424
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Yes three years it is. And four since we toured as Finbar pointed out though that was the ‘tour of death’ – no senior players were involved at all. However it isn’t our fault it’s been so long – we tried to get a series against you this summer but your Union chose Ireland instead – perfectly understandable when you wanted gentle warm up games for the tri-nations but disappointing for both of us I think?

Defintely disappointing. Also I think it would have done the All Blacks good to have had a more challenging opposition at that stage. Its all very well to ease into things, but when all your games leading up to the tri-nations are (relatively) easy ones, your rate of improvement wont be as good as it could be. I think if England had played us instead of Ireland, we would have been forced to improve a little faster. Win or lose. If fact losing probably would have spurred us on even more!

quote: Okay news from England on the dawn of the new season – Tigers have signed Joseph Naufahu from Canterbury (the club side) as cover for the back line crisis. He appears to have left after not being drafted by Crusaders in 02 (he was in 01 apparently). Do you know anything about him Caligastia?

The name sounds familiar. Doesnt he play on the wing?

quote: And in other news not only do I get to see Tigers opening league game (away to Leeds) on Sky tomorrow they are also showing the Canterbury NPC game live in the morning.

I guess youre talking about Canterbury vs Waikato. I just saw Waikato play North Harbour (North Harbour beat Otago last year, so they are good), and they beat them pretty convincingly. So the Canterbury/Waikato game should be interesting.

I will be watching Auckland (my home team) play North Harbour tonight. Should be a good game. GO AUCKLAND!

	30-08-2002 18:21									#425
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quote: Originally posted by finbar BTW, I found an NPC match on FoxSports last night. Waikato -v- West Harbour

They didnt show that one over here. West Harbour must be fairly low on the totem pole because I havent ever seen them play. I imagine Waikato thrashed them.

	30-08-2002 18:34									#426
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia They didnt show that one over here. West Harbour must be fairly low on the totem pole because I havent ever seen them play. I imagine Waikato thrashed them.

Maybe I got the Harbours confused. If you saw Waikato -v- North Harbour, maybe it was the same game. It was only on last night so it must have been a recent game.

Edit. I just checked. I did get the Harbours confused. It was North Harbour. The match was played on August 24th.

	30-08-2002 18:51									#427
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Maybe I got the Harbours confused. If you saw Waikato -v- North Harbour, maybe it was the same game. It was only on last night so it must have been a recent game. Edit. I just checked. I did get the Harbours confused. It was North Harbour. The match was played on August 24th.

You had me confused for a bit there. West Auckland is where most of the 'bogans' (as you would call them) are, so I was imagining a rugby team of guys with long hair, jeans and black sweaters.

	30-08-2002 18:51									#428
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12000 years ago...

*UGA* *UGA* WE INVENTED FIRE! *UGA* *UGA*
*UGA* *UGA* TO CELEBRATE, ALL PLAY RUGBY *UGA* *UGA*

	30-08-2002 19:19									#429
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quote: I gather the extra hour of daylight is packed up in a carton and sent between the hemispheres

Which reminds me I’ll need to parcel it up for posting soon…

quote: That's extraordinary. One of the downsides of such a developed comp

And of the fact a lot of teams play in old grounds with tiny capacities – away fans get little look in a lot of the time. We tend to get a few visitors at Welford road – a number of standing spots and seats are reserved for away fans – but I doubt we ever reach much more than 1000 non-home fans.

quote: It was entirely unsolicited. What's the residential qualification these days anyway? The guy's going to miss a lot of rep rugby

Unsolicted is fine by me really – but hunting foreign nationals is not on. Having said that I’m not keen on our having done it with Henry Paul (okay he and his brother are practically English but technically they should be Kiwis).

AFAIK qualification is still three years – but you can no longer wear two badges at senior level in a career. ‘Grannygate’ Howarth who wrongly thought he was Welsh (and got 15 caps before finding out he was Kiwi after all) has just been refused qualification for Wales after a three year period because he already has 4 AB caps in the early 90s! Now that is exquisitely cruel given Noriega can carry on playing as he likes – the new regulations only apply to applications following the date when the change was voted through.

quote: And his grandmother's Australian

Only parents should count –or birth. Grand-whatever is too tenuous for me. Like Laney the Kiwi who became Scottish last year- plain silly.

As you say though I expect the lad will remain in RSA.

quote: but 20 years is a dang long time between the first two games.

I hate to say this but I suspect I know the cause of the early sparcity and gaps. It’s not travel but rather the fact the establishment here from early last century would not have considered ‘colonials’ worth the fixture. All the focus would have been on the Home Unions (not even France). It’s harsh - but it’s part of the lamentable past of Union here – way too socially elite.

quote: If fact losing probably would have spurred us on even more!

Either way I would hope we might have given you just enough ‘edge’ to turn over the Wallabies in their backyard. Lets face it we all live to do just that!?

quote: Doesnt he play on the wing?

He covered Vunibaka during his injury last season so I guess yes – but we have definitely signed him as a centre – we don’t need extra wing cover really.

As an aside Tigers had Vunibaka signed as a 17 year old (he was a protégé of Serevi who we tried then shifted out damn quick a few years back) but he couldn’t get a damn work permit. I saw him play back then and we knew we were losing something special!

	30-08-2002 21:46									#430
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Either way I would hope we might have given you just enough ‘edge’ to turn over the Wallabies in their backyard. Lets face it we all live to do just that!?

..or watch someone else do it.

	30-08-2002 23:03									#431
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Oh Absolutely.

	31-08-2002 06:06									#432
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I like your sig Havak.

	31-08-2002 08:17									#433
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Which reminds me I’ll need to parcel it up for posting soon…

Post it here. Spread it around.

quote: Now that is exquisitely cruel given Noriega can carry on playing as he likes – the new regulations only apply to applications following the date when the change was voted through.

One of those rules that would have been impossible to implement retrospectively.

quote: I hate to say this but I suspect I know the cause of the early sparcity and gaps. It’s not travel but rather the fact the establishment here from early last century would not have considered ‘colonials’ worth the fixture. All the focus would have been on the Home Unions (not even France). It’s harsh - but it’s part of the lamentable past of Union here – way too socially elite.

The irony being that the tally was 2-all after the 4 matches between 1928 and 1958. England won the first match, then the victories alternated. Your establishment must have been mightily p*ssed off.

	31-08-2002 08:21									#434
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I like your sig Havak.

I was operating on the basis that if you ignore something long enough - ŕ la SuperSneak - it will go away.

	31-08-2002 21:38									#435
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Auckland 43 - North Harbour 7

It was a very close game in the first half with North Harbour in the lead at halftime by 2 points (7 - 5). Auckland crushed them in the second half though thanks to some great attacking runs by Carlos Spencer opening up gaps everywhere. Apparently John Mitchell is looking to get him back into the All blacks as fullback.

Auckland look very good, and I expect them to go far this season.

	01-09-2002 06:44									#436
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Carlos Spencer seems to be another of those good players who struggles for AB recognition along with Byron Kellaher, etc. Spencer played some blinders for the Maori XV here a couple of months ago. If Mitchell is thinking about him for full back - where does that leave C. Cullen? On the outer, presumably, given that he wasn't holding his spot towards the end of the season.

BTW, Cal, this is the 435th post. Your new-thread-starting-trigger finger must be getting itchy. I suspect we're not going to have any trouble keeping these threads alive until November - Havak is bound to keep us up to date on the welfare of every whisker on Jonno's lanternesque jaw. What did we decide on for the next thread title? Rugby - Who? Me, Sir? Offside? was an early favourite, I recall.

	02-09-2002 02:47									#437
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Carlos Spencer seems to be another of those good players who struggles for AB recognition along with Byron Kellaher, etc. Spencer played some blinders for the Maori XV here a couple of months ago. If Mitchell is thinking about him for full back - where does that leave C. Cullen? On the outer, presumably, given that he wasn't holding his spot towards the end of the season.

Spencer's main problem is consistency. When hes on his game he is fantastic, but Ive also seen some horrible games from him in the past. Perhaps he has matured somewhat since then. I imagine Cullen would be moved back onto the wing...

quote: BTW, Cal, this is the 435th post. Your new-thread-starting-trigger finger must be getting itchy. I suspect we're not going to have any trouble keeping these threads alive until November - Havak is bound to keep us up to date on the welfare of every whisker on Jonno's lanternesque jaw. What did we decide on for the next thread title? Rugby - Who? Me, Sir? Offside? was an early favourite, I recall.

I was actually planning to let this thread get a bit closer to the 500 mark this time seeing as the post rate has dropped since the end of the Tri-nations. That title sounds good to me, so if everyone else is happy with it...

	02-09-2002 05:00									#438
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I imagine Cullen would be moved back onto the wing...

In place of whom? I really got the impression that Cullen was on the slippery slide. And his attitude seemed to be a big part of the problem.

	02-09-2002 12:48									#439
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quote: I like your sig Havak.

As soon as I saw it I knew it was screaming to be a signature. And seeing Finbar’s comment I think it has life in it yet.

quote: One of those rules that would have been impossible to implement retrospectively.

Agreed. I am never the less all in favour of it I have to say.

quote: Your establishment must have been mightily p*ssed off.

I very much hope so. I didn’t mean they didn’t consider you capable physically. I meant that old and hateful English quality of snobbery. Entertain Australians at twickers old boy – the very thought of it!!
Fortunately our game is now enjoyed by a much wider strata of socio-economic groups.

Okay you almost certainly won’t know but Tigers lost 26-13 on Saturday. That in itself did not worry me, they have lost the opening game in all four championship seasons IIRC and gone on to lose only an average of four games all season afterwards.

What did worry me was how they played. The Leeds forwards shunted the pack several times, we won almost no restart ball – theirs or ours, and we turned over possession time and time again. And sadly Tournaire was pinged several times for not going in straight and square.

Fair play to Leeds – they were up for it and played well – but even though they have strengthened their squad that was the team that held up the table last year and we should be eating them alive home and away –well okay we will destroy them at home but it is away wins that make a championship and we missed an easier one there.

Dean Richards said the dressing room felt like they had lost the European final!

I am looking for a massive improvement at home on Saturday to Harlequins (the quartered shirt lads who play in the shadow of twickers at the Stoop ground).

Not a happy Havak this morning

	02-09-2002 14:34									#440
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I understand what you are feeling Havak, the Stade Toulousain has also lost its first match away 32-17 against Perpignan. The fact they have lost is not the problem, this is also a kind of habit, the problem is that they have been unable to play. I hope we will not have the same season as the last one.

	02-09-2002 15:06									#441
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I hope not also - it is traditional for an English side to meet Toulouse in the elimination phase of the European cup.

Traditions are important.

I did not know they had lost as well - I hope it is just a minor slip for us both.

For Caligastia - NauFahu is very impressive - big and strong, he threatens the line all the time. He was very unlucky not to get a clean break when he hit the ball at speed and was clean though (and moving fast) but got judged marginally off side. I'm coming around to Finbar's view that this shouldn't be pinged - had we scored then the game might well have gone our way.

	02-09-2002 16:05									#442
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Not a happy Havak this morning

:violins:

	02-09-2002 16:09									#443
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quote: Originally posted by Havak For Caligastia - NauFahu is very impressive -

God bless the Pacific islands, for where would New Zealand rugby be without them?

quote: I'm coming around to Finbar's view that this shouldn't be pinged - had we scored then the game might well have gone our way.

Your wit becomes more dry as the weeks roll by, Havak. I've taught you well.

	02-09-2002 17:08									#444
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Traditions are important.

At least for us Northerners.

quote: I did not know they had lost as well - I hope it is just a minor slip for us both.

I'am sure this is true for the Tigers but I'am also convinced this is not for the Stade Toulousain and that we are up for a bad season. The scrum (especially the first row) which was one of the greatest strength of the Stade is now but a shadow of its past and our forwards will suffer against many teams. Wait and see, but I'am very pessimistic.

	02-09-2002 18:02									#445
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Your sympathy astounds me Finbar.

You have indeed had a major influence on my use of humour.

quote: God bless the Pacific islands, for where would New Zealand rugby be without them?

I'm thinking right next to Wales, if you see what I mean?

quote: At least for us Northerners.

The SH have some too - not least the one "we are not good at that - let's get the law changed"

quote: is now but a shadow of its past and our forwards will suffer against many teams

I can't believe it - it was a fearsome pack the times I saw it. The coach and club must rectify this immediately.

	02-09-2002 20:13									#446
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quote: Originally posted by finbar In place of whom? I really got the impression that Cullen was on the slippery slide. And his attitude seemed to be a big part of the problem.

Yeah, he might be phased out. It will be interesting to see what happens on the european tour.

	03-09-2002 00:29									#447
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quote: And sadly Tournaire was pinged several times for not going in straight and square.

Ah, that is a habit he has, yes. He seems to be always pushing "a little" sideways...

quote: The scrum (especially the first row) which was one of the greatest strength of the Stade is now but a shadow of its past

I thought most of the front row of the Stade was hurt or somehow unavailable. This should get better as time passes. Although I agree that losing to Perpignan is a very bad thing. I wouldn't mind much if Toulouse had lost against about anyone else, but the USAP... Anyway winning at Perpignan has always been very very very difficult for everybody.
And Pau lost too, but it was not by much and I like Colomiers, so that is not catastrophic.

	03-09-2002 04:47									#448
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quote: Originally posted by Havak You have indeed had a major influence on my use of humour.

Ah, yes. Humour. The ultimate velvet glove.

quote: I'm thinking right next to Wales, if you see what I mean?

I'd've thought a couple of hundred miles west of Wales, five hundred fathoms down.

I checked out the weekend's Zurich results. I notice one of your chaps - Mr Kay - was binned for a punch. The red card obviously doesn't exist up there either.

BTW, who are the Sharks? Which city (or town) are they? They will be strengthened when Graeme Bond turns up. As will the Saints when Mark Connors appears.

	03-09-2002 04:52									#449
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Awww...does Australia want its share of pacific island players?

:violins:

	03-09-2002 05:23									#450
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Awww...does Australia want its share of pacific island players? :violins:

No thanks. We're happy with the occasional chap who wanders this way.