10-08-2002 23:57									#751
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Isn't this thread a train wreck? Yes, this thread is a train wreck.

Postia ante deletia!

	10-08-2002 23:58									#752
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed parents want to do the right things for their children, and if they make mistakes, so be it. nobody's the perfect parent.

That's exactly why they should err on the side of caution. Where possible, they shouldn't choose the thing that can't be undone.

	11-08-2002 00:01									#753
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quote: Originally posted by Tom31 That's exactly why they should err on the side of caution. Where possible, they shouldn't choose the thing that can't be undone.

Now I can agree with you.

	11-08-2002 00:02									#754
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove It became prevalent in the US during the 20th century when in-hospital birthing became dominant since medical recommendation favored circumcision.

Yes, and what was that medical recommendation based on? That it would prevent epilepsy!

	11-08-2002 00:03									#755
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but see, the thing ss seems to be saying is that he was absolutely and totally convinced that it was the right thing to do. he seems to not have known that it could have been the wrong thing to do.

it's like saying that one should never take risks because one should always be cautious.

maybe it wasn't the right thing to do. all that matters is at the time of the event, it did not seem to be in error.

	11-08-2002 00:05									#756
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whether it was in error or not is a different matter.

i'm not defending his attacks on asher. but by the same token, i don't think asher should be attacking him like that.

anyway, this thread is past its death time.

	11-08-2002 00:08									#757
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Learn religion please and come back here.

How about if YOU learn some anatomy?

	11-08-2002 00:18									#758
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My penis works fine. I have no complaints I'm glad for your concern, but sorry, I don't want anything you are selling .

And Dr. Stranglove, a medical profession, has shown most of your claims that it is detrimental to be wrong. And yes, if you are going to bring something up, please know what the Hell you are talking about.

	11-08-2002 00:30									#759
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui My penis works fine.

I'm sure it does. U don't have to keep reminding us!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And Dr. Stranglove, a medical profession, has shown most of your claims that it is detrimental to be wrong.

Ask a guy who had serious complications from circumcision whether it was detrimental or not. Do you think it's OK to play Russian roulette with a kid's sex organ?

	11-08-2002 00:36									#760
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I think it is a bit overblown in regards to "mishaps". There are mishaps in surgery and medicine all the time. Perhaps one day everyone will do the same thing, cut or uncut...but until that time, a parent has a right to make the decision and it is not taken lightly. Hell, if it hadn't made any difference to us, I could have saved some money in the process.
Funny thing is, the circumcision actually ended up costing more than the birth.
And I'd be curious to know what they do with the removed skin? Do the removing parties sell it to burn centers, or what?

	11-08-2002 00:42									#761
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Learn religion please and come back here. You love to speak out of your ass a whole lot without any knowledge. First thing to learn is that the sign of the covenant wasn't a sacrifice.

"Similarly with regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is, in my opinion, the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible."

--Maimonides, medieval Jewish rabbi, philosopher, and physician

http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/

	11-08-2002 00:44									#762
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quote: And I'd be curious to know what they do with the removed skin? Do the removing parties sell it to burn centers, or what?

Oh, you know the old joke - they plant them on the ground, and when they're all grown up, they send them to Finland to be policemen.

Finland swappable with nation joke is told in, of course.

	11-08-2002 00:49									#763
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quote: Originally posted by SuperSneak There are mishaps in surgery and medicine all the time.

Exactly. That's why doctors shouldn't be operating on infants unless the infant needs surgery. If there is doubt, which is the most you can possibly say for circumcision, then it shouldn't be done.

	11-08-2002 01:02									#764
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Hmmm....that's your opinion and it is valid. At the time of my research I was told that there was some evidence of an aid in fighting STD's. I by no means canvassed the entire medical community, but I trust the people I spoke to and went for it. everything has turned out all right, so now it just remains to be seen whether it ends up being proven to fight off infectious disease. Seemed like about a 50-50 shot at the time.

	11-08-2002 01:02									#765
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove In the US parents can give consent even to elective procedures as their child's legal gardian.

Doctors have ethical and legal obligations to their patients. In this case, the patient is the child. Medical ethics don't allow doctors to perform medically unnecessary surgery on patients who cannot give informed consent.

	11-08-2002 01:04									#766
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quote: Originally posted by SuperSneak Hmmm....that's your opinion and it is valid.

It's not just my opinion. It's the most important principle of medicine. "First, do no harm." That's been the rule for 2,500 years.

	11-08-2002 01:17									#767
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another important principle of medicine, also 2,500 years old, was to not take advantage of those that needed your assisstance.

i don't see many doctors doing these surgeries cheaply now, do i?

	11-08-2002 01:43									#768
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Supersneak is now on my permanent ignore list.

Unfortunate, since I used to think he was a decent fellow. Wow, was I wrong.