08-08-2002 06:54									#1
	Should I circumcize my son? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I found out today that we're having a boy, and I think this decision is very important, so I want to have as much time as possible to decide, and who better to ask than a bunch of guys (and some young women with no children)? Seriously though, any moms who want to talk about it have very strong opinions, it's difficult to know what to believe.

My husband was raised Muslim, and he thinks it's completely unnatural to be "intact" (I'm learning the lingo), but I'm not prepared to do something that may be incredibly traumatic just because it seems normal.

I saw this episode of Sex and the City when an uncirc. man decided later in life to have it done, and (of course) it was incredibly painful. Why is that it's OK to do it to infants just because they won't remember the pain?

I'm interested in what people from other countries have to say because I understand it's not nearly as common in other countries.

You don't have to share with us whether or not you are (maybe privately if you're not comfortable), but I would really appreciate it. If you are, are you glad? If you're not, do you wish you were?

	08-08-2002 07:01									#2
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Why don't you let the boy decide later in his life if he wants to be circumcized or not?

There's no medical reason to do it this day and age, just old wives tails in the same vein as "you'll go blind" from certain actions.

If it makes any difference, Canada says you shouldn't circumcize unless it's for religious reasons (or in cases of medical emergencies). The rate of botched circumcisions is higher than any kind of illness that could have been prevented with circumcision (which is pretty pointless these days, what with hygiene and all)

	08-08-2002 07:03									#3
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Asher, would you willingly be curcumcised now?

I can't imagine why anyone would want to be.

	08-08-2002 07:04									#4
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Oh, and it's medically proven that the foreskin is very sensitive skin and contains lots of nerve endings. Cutting it off reduces sensitivity and therefore pleasure (which is one of the reasons it was instituted in certain religions in the first place -- to discourage playing with it )

	08-08-2002 07:04									#5
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I wouldn't do it. Not that big a deal, but it does apparently adversely affect sensation during intercourse...

I'm all there, BTW.

	08-08-2002 07:05									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Asher, would you willingly be curcumcised now? I can't imagine why anyone would want to be.

Perhaps this is the point.

Very, very few people want to be circumcised. The vast majority are butchered by well meaning parents. Of course the people who were circumcised when they were children will insist it's better this way (they'll spew some outdated facts about cancer and infection), when they don't know what they're missing.

	08-08-2002 07:05									#7
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Well...
1. It isn't as painful for infants.
2. Women have different opinions on which they'd want their lover to have. In the US at least, most women seem to like it cut. The percentage, though heavily favoring cut now (I think around 75%) has been going down over the past few years.
3. I'm circumcized and have had no problems. Am I glad though? I don't really know what chances I would have missed. I'm content at least.

	08-08-2002 07:07									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Well... 1. It isn't as painful for infants.

How do you figure? Just because they probably won't remember it means it's less painful? Have you ever been to a briss?

quote: 2. Women have different opinions on which they'd want their lover to have. In the US at least, most women seem to like it cut. The percentage, though heavily favoring cut now (I think around 75%) has been going down over the past few years.

Most women are used to it in the US, that's why. Outside of the US & Muslim countries, most men are not cut and the women's preference reflects that as well...

	08-08-2002 07:10									#9
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Asher:
1. It is about recovering time. Infants heal faster and are much more active sooner.
2. The poster is from Las Vegas so I am taking that into account. I'm being very objective here.

	08-08-2002 07:10									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Why don't you let the boy decide later in his life if he wants to be circumcized or not?

Well, I heard (and I don't know if this is true) that the nerves heal better the younger they are.

	08-08-2002 07:11									#11
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I am circumcized, and many times I honestly wish I hadn't been. I have been with guys who are and guys who aren't, and the ones who aren't seem to be able to enjoy things much more.

My brother and his wife had their son circumcized solely for the reason that they didn't want him to be made fun of in the locker room in school. I couldn't believe that--found it appalling rationale. Unless it is for religious reasons, I'd say there's no reason to do it. The day and age when it is so uncommon to be uncircumcized as to be a source of mockery is probably well past us (if it ever was truly here, was it? ).

	08-08-2002 07:11									#12
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Yes cut em, I had all my 4 done. The last one didn't turn out too good but hey! That's his problem now

	08-08-2002 07:11									#13
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Leave it be. The foreskin's there for a reason (protects the glans and mucous membranes).

	08-08-2002 07:12									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Yes cut em, I had all my 4 done. The last one didn't turn out too good but hey! That's his problem now

	08-08-2002 07:15									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger I wouldn't do it. Not that big a deal, but it does apparently adversely affect sensation during intercourse...

Oh come on. Men enjoy sex enough as it is, don't you think?

But seriously, that is important to me.

Although, here in the US, he may end up having less sex because of it. I don't want anyone running in terror. Of course, I don't need superficial girls who don't really care about my son sleeping with him, do I?

	08-08-2002 07:16									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Asher: 1. It is about recovering time. Infants heal faster and are much more active sooner.

They also can't be sedated properly for the operation, while adults can. Adults can also take medication afterwards to help with pain.

	08-08-2002 07:18									#17
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I have always found the religious justification for these procedures to be a total joke. If god really didn't want you to have a foreskin then why would he create man with one? This is just another primitive superstition.

	08-08-2002 07:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor Oh come on. Men enjoy sex enough as it is, don't you think? But seriously, that is important to me. Although, here in the US, he may end up having less sex because of it. I don't want anyone running in terror. Of course, I don't need superficial girls who don't really care about my son sleeping with him, do I?

Circumcision is a relic of ancient religion. It was originally done to prevent masturbation and infection for the most part. These days we have daily showers and masturbation is no longer a sin (for those of us sane), so the only reason circumcision persists is out of habit.

Most people have broken this habit. In Europe, hardly anyone is circumcized. In Canada the majority are not. The US, the majority are. Backwards nation...

Do it for the right reasons. If you're religious and the religion calls for it, then you should go for it. If you're not religious and are doing it for the sake of your son fitting in, I'd strongly suggest you do not mutilate him so he fits in better at the locker room (even though circumcision's popularity is fading). There is a reason the foreskin is there, and it's also more pleasurable, and there's also no chance of a botched circumcision.

	08-08-2002 07:20									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov My brother and his wife had their son circumcized solely for the reason that they didn't want him to be made fun of in the locker room in school. I couldn't believe that--found it appalling rationale.

My sons will only be in locker rooms if they play city sports because I'm home schooling them, so it won't be an issue, but if you can't find a better reason to mutilate your children... I wish I could tell that to my husband. My little brothers, aged 2 and 4, are not circ. and whenever he sees them running around naked he shakes his head. Maybe it's just his hang-up.

	08-08-2002 07:21									#20
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Is your husband still a practicing Muslim? Will your kids be Muslim?

	08-08-2002 07:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Is your husband still a practicing Muslim? Will your kids be Muslim?

I'm an atheist, as a few of you may know, but my husband, well, he waffles. I hate that. Sometimes he says he doesn't believe in God and he really seems to be sincere, and we've talked about it a lot, but if you bring a piece of pork around him, he goes berzerk.

I made it very clear to him that we are not raising our children in any religion, but as long as he allows me the same privilege, he can tell them whatever he wants about what believes (hopefully after he figures it out).

I am more worried about his family interfering, although thankfully they are a continent and an ocean away. They seem to be able to exert an amazing amount of influence in spite of this fact, however...

	08-08-2002 07:32									#22
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If your kids aren't muslim, I don't see why they should be circumcised.

Then again, it's your husband and you have to deal with him...

	08-08-2002 07:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There is a reason the foreskin is there, and it's also more pleasurable, and there's also no chance of a botched circumcision.

I knew there was a reason, LAWSUIT!!!!

	08-08-2002 07:35									#24
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Some info for you to base your decision on:
Medical Benefits From Circumcision

Mothers against Circumcision

I leave it to you to decide who puts up the better case.

	08-08-2002 07:36									#25
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Certainly not

	08-08-2002 07:36									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Yes cut em, I had all my 4 done.

Reasons?

quote: The last one didn't turn out too good but hey! That's his problem now

Woah, I hope you're not serious about that. Yes, I see the smiley, but are you just being funny, or do you mean it in some ways?

I think considering that parents' decisions have such an effect on their children, we should take them rather seriously.

	08-08-2002 07:39									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Some info for you to base your decision on: Medical Benefits From Circumcision Mothers against Circumcision I leave it to you to decide who puts up the better case.

Yeah, I've heard what the moms have to say. I really want to hear what men have to say because my son isn't going to be a mom, he's going to be a man.

	08-08-2002 07:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Some info for you to base your decision on: Medical Benefits From Circumcision Mothers against Circumcision I leave it to you to decide who puts up the better case.

Ah, it's good to see the pro-circumcision people still try the hygeine argument and "studies" from 1947. Don't they have showers?

They also take an excerpt from the odd American doctor as an individual who promotes it. No doubt he performs the procedure and profits from it...

From the Mother's against Circ site:

quote: After a two year investigation, the American Academy of Pediatrics concluded that the "potential medical benefits" of infant circumcision aren't significant enough and therefore, they do not recommend it as a routine procedure.

Surely the Academy of pediatrics would know more about it than an individual doctor? Canada also has the same recommendations.

quote: Routine Infant Circumcision [RIC] is not practiced in most medically advanced nations. Unlike American parents, few parents worldwide are actually faced with this choice. Their babies are automatically brought home intact. 82% of the world’s living men are intact. Few people are aware of the fact that circumcision was introduced to our culture in an attempt to eliminate masturbation.

quote: People mistakenly believe the circumcised penis is cleaner. The myth that the penis with a foreskin is difficult to clean is exactly that -- a myth. Cleaning is so simple, it’s amazing that people fret so much about it. The big hoopla over hygiene is pure and unnecessary paranoia.

quote: Circumcision does not guarantee a problem free penis. In fact, in many cases it is the very thing that initiates numerous problems. Careful cleaning must be performed. Infections of the raw wound are common.

	08-08-2002 07:43									#29
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By the time your son is old enough to be intimate with girls, I'm fairly hopeful that societal prejudices against uncircumcized men will be very much on the wane.

Since you're not religious and aren't going to raise him as such, I'd have to vote no. Don't deprive him of the choice, at least. Ultimately, he can, if he really wants, have it done of his own volition when older.

	08-08-2002 07:44									#30
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor Yeah, I've heard what the moms have to say. I really want to hear what men have to say because my son isn't going to be a mom, he's going to be a man.

82% of the men in the world are uncut, and they'll almost all tell you they prefer it that way.
The rest are cut, and will tell you they don't mind it.

As a man, I would have hated my parents to have chosen to cut off my foreskin. Luckily my GP informed my parents about the benefits/risks before I was born and realized there's no point to circumcision these days.