08-08-2002 13:09									#1
	The AI is that good, it's like you're playing against humans!! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok, I saw this kind of subjects worked to get Soren's attention Hi Soren!

About that AI, it's combat strategies are indeed good,
but I'm not that satisfied about it's negotiation capacities....

(There's a long thread somewhere else about it)

will the negotiation be improved in PtW?
There are examples in the other thread, I'll post a link later.

	08-08-2002 13:11									#2
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and here's the link: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=58018

the bottom posts give some suggestions. (they're free )

	08-08-2002 15:47									#3
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Ahhh...that was the point of the title

I agree...the combat strategy is good enough for now

But the negotiations really needs to be fixed...can we get a word from Firaxis, that this is going to be fixed in PtW? Or are you only working on the MP part?

	08-08-2002 16:33									#4
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the AI is better .. it now targets my Leaders as soon as thry made.. no matter where i hide them the AI seems to go strawight foir thejm

	08-08-2002 16:39									#5
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Don't hide your leaders. Use them imediatly. That way you may get another with the next victory by an elite unit.

	08-08-2002 16:55									#6
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`i meant they attack them before i can get them to a city to build my army !!!

	08-08-2002 16:59									#7
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Oooo that's sneaky! Get the UN to impose sanctions!

	08-08-2002 17:13									#8
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latest game a classic.. just got a leader from my last standing tank battle versus some well entrenched infranty.... i name my mighty leader and send hi mtowrds my nearest city... i send with him some tanks and a some infrantry... gues what out of nowhere coems the rampaging AI and attacks me in the mountains where he throws nearly all of his force agaisant my leader, who unfortuantly dies, but this opened up his whole civ to me as he took unbeleivable losses killing my leader.... woo hooo a domination victory coming up !!!

	08-08-2002 17:49									#9
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Don't hijack this thread plz.
The topic is: Ai negotiations.

not leaders, you can open a ew thread for that one though

	08-08-2002 19:00									#10
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no the thread topic is "AI is that Good " ~~~

Doesnt mention Negotitations ....

	08-08-2002 19:49									#11
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the first post does mention that though,
and it's the first post that sets the topic.

	08-08-2002 20:02									#12
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...And I thought the topic of this thread is to get Soren's attention.

	08-08-2002 20:25									#13
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy the first post does mention that though, and it's the first post that sets the topic.

I thought you were just threadjacking your own thread LOL

	08-08-2002 20:56									#14
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Yeah, I agree, negotiations need work. Who would've thought that 20 gold for 20 gold would be absurd? Or that trading a good city (mine) for a pitiful town (theirs) would also be absurd? (although, there could've been a resource their, not yet appeard. Stupid cheating......)

As to GLs, I've never had one.....then again, I don't play all that much. I think I spend WAAAAY too much time on these forums

	08-08-2002 21:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin I thought you were just threadjacking your own thread LOL

Ming: ban him

	08-08-2002 21:28									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SwitchMoO Yeah, I agree, negotiations need work. Who would've thought that 20 gold for 20 gold would be absurd?

Cybershy, sorry for this... I know you dreamed of a better thread... but I can't help myself... Is there anyone else considering swapping 20 gold for 20 gold absurd? Useless? Or is it just me?

	08-08-2002 21:46									#17
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I suppose that it's just the principle of the thing.

	08-08-2002 22:15									#18
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I think swapping 20 gold for 20 gold is indeed absurd.
I would declare war to everyone who tries that on me.

Geeez, what do they think..............

	08-08-2002 22:17									#19
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why is it that i cant even talk to the attacking ai for the first 5-10 turns, but my allies whom i've given a kings ransom to support me, can make peace the next turn? i do wish it was possible to trade cities. if i have 2 of your cities, i should be able to trade it for one of mine. Also, i gave a city to an ally, and they went from polite to annoyed. ungrateful allies.....

	08-08-2002 23:05									#20
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The Ai won't talk with you as long as there's violent because you and him. Keep 1 - 3 turns of violentless turns, and things will be fine.

	08-08-2002 23:30									#21
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quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 why is it that i cant even talk to the attacking ai for the first 5-10 turns, but my allies whom i've given a kings ransom to support me, can make peace the next turn?

Well in the case of the allies I suspect it may be what Cybershy is talking about. They haven't done anything hostile for a while or yet. As for waiting 5 to 10 turns that is because of the exploitation that was going on in the original version of the game. Players were going to war to get a quick victory and a crushing peace treaty. Then they would do it again. Now they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. It was bad enough that the exploiters thought it was a bad situation.

	08-08-2002 23:40									#22
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great i had all my trolling weaponry armed.

	08-08-2002 23:40									#23
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The AI doesnt seem to want to come to the negotiating table unless it suits them... I have had the AI contact me for peace in a few wars, but if my civ is wracked by civil unrest the AI seems to know and wont answer my calls for peace.... I hate that especially when the Damn AI started the war and my people still get into unrest ...

	08-08-2002 23:41									#24
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.EDIT: DATABASE PROBLEMS CAUSED DOUBLE POST

	09-08-2002 00:33									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin , but if my civ is wracked by civil unrest the AI seems to know and wont answer my calls for peace....

Its not hard to tell if the AI has that problem. Its tedious but not hard. You just have to check what goverment type they have. If they are in anarchy its likely they just collapsed from war weariness or are trying to avoid it. You can see the burning cities as well before the collapse occurs.

	09-08-2002 01:24									#26
	Re: The AI is that good, it's like you're playing against humans!! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy About that AI, it's combat strategies are indeed good, but I'm not that satisfied about it's negotiation capacities....

Trying to snatch a Civ3 developer on your hook eh?

While we're discussing the subject of AI diplomacy it's a good idea to bring up Freeciv. As you know (if you read my column) FC doesn't have diplomacy currently, but ideas and views (mostly on effective rules and balanced gamemodels) and how to implement it (AI code design) are welcome.
--

	09-08-2002 05:28									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin The AI doesnt seem to want to come to the negotiating table unless it suits them... I have had the AI contact me for peace in a few wars, but if my civ is wracked by civil unrest the AI seems to know and wont answer my calls for peace....

Well, you know it cheats and is omniscient.

About the AI coming to the table. . . It is always irritating when you keep taking a civ's towns and cities, but they won't meet you, or, if they do, won't make peace accept on a treaty for treaty basis! If I request something to call off my successful attacks the stupid AI insults me, and eventually gets wiped out except for an island town far away.

Well, maybe it's not so dumb; perhaps this is just another cheat in which a civ sacrifices itself to help its brother civs pass the human in techs and improvements.

	09-08-2002 09:23									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Well, you know it cheats and is omniscient.

No one including the designers know this Coracle. You think it but can't even support your claim.

quote: About the AI coming to the table. . . It is always irritating when you keep taking a civ's towns and cities, but they won't meet you, or, if they do, won't make peace accept on a treaty for treaty basis! If I request something to call off my successful attacks the stupid AI insults me, and eventually gets wiped out except for an island town far away.

Perhaps they know you think they are omniscent and don't want to surrender to someone that thinks they are inferior. More likely though you have been breaking your treaties left and right thus making the AI consider you to be unreliable. If you start keeping your treaties you will find the AI a lot more cooperative. Your unwillingness to learn these things is the real source of your thinking that the AI is omniscent.

	09-08-2002 13:05									#29
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quote: CapTV: While we're discussing the subject of AI diplomacy it's a good idea to bring up Freeciv. As you know (if you read my column) FC doesn't have diplomacy currently, but ideas and views (mostly on effective rules and balanced gamemodels) and how to implement it (AI code design) are welcome.

did you follow the link I came with?
I putted some suggestions in that thread.

	09-08-2002 13:09									#30
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quote: It is always irritating when you keep taking a civ's towns and cities, but they won't meet you, or, if they do, won't make peace accept on a treaty for treaty basis! If I request something to call off my successful attacks the stupid AI insults me, and eventually gets wiped out except for an island town far away.

I really don't experience ANY of your problems.
When I'm slaughtering the AI, and we have contact, they always want to make a fair peace deal.

Pherhaps you're in a situation where the AI is actually beating you. In that case I completely understand why it won't accept peace.

Pherhaps you're playing on a level above your capacities? No offense, but I really don't experience any of the problems you come up with all the time.