12-08-2002 08:50									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Sheik Apos and Lytons are good. Though this new currency idea sounds crazy to me. I can't even eat it. We can't have paper money till we discover printing press, right?

We can't PRINT paper money. But we can have scribes duplicate it.

	12-08-2002 14:48									#32
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Maybe you have already decided on the name for the currency, but IMHO, "Banana Dollars" is rather cool.

During World War II, the Japanese printed lots of paper currency in occupied South East Asia, to finance their war effort. These paper currency are called "Banana Dollars". Why ? See attached.

Attachment: malaya2.jpg
This has been downloaded 99 time(s).

	12-08-2002 18:31									#33
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I think the Banana should be represent as ß for the major set of currency and perhaps þ for minor currency. Could be annnoying though as you would have consytantly open the character map.

	12-08-2002 20:32									#34
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mod'd from gePap's, I removed the coins I thought we wouldn't need.

Apo are coppers. Lytons are gold coins. We don't have paper currency yet (too flimsy in our harsh humid climate), but perhaps in the future when we get better paper making tech.

slang is in italics

1 Apo (1/100th of a Lyton)
5 Apo (nickel)
10 Apo (dime)
25 Apo (quarter)
1 Lyton (a banana, or ban)
2 Lytons (a double, or banban)
5 Lytons (a Trip)
10 Lytons (a Ninot)
20 Lytons (a Spiffor, honouring our MoE)

-->that'll likely the top amount of money we'll be using until we build up our infrastructure and have enough

50 Lytons (reserved for future MoEs or presidents of distinction)
100 Lytons (reserved for future MoEs or presidents of distinction)
1000 Lytons (reserved, or a Grand)

If we name them after people, they should be people who have been very influential in developing our economics systems.

	12-08-2002 20:40									#35
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quote: Originally posted by rush Maybe you have already decided on the name for the currency, but IMHO, "Banana Dollars" is rather cool. During World War II, the Japanese printed lots of paper currency in occupied South East Asia, to finance their war effort. These paper currency are called "Banana Dollars". Why ? See attached.

I thought the phrase "Banana Dollars" sounded familiar, why was it printed in English?

	12-08-2002 20:52									#36
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So English speakers can figure out what's written on it! DUH.
Do I have to explain everything to you?

Serious: That's a good question! I'd like to know too.

	12-08-2002 21:56									#37
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That is quite the conundrum.

	12-08-2002 23:28									#38
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Apparently, the Japanese had the foresight to print their currency so that the future invading allied forces would be able to read it.

Why that was important to them I'm not sure...........

	12-08-2002 23:35									#39
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If You like the Banana stuff what do You think of :

Platano
Guineo
Guinea
Platanillo
Patacon
Banano
Bananito
Bananote
Bananillo
Bananazo???

Ahh??

Ehat Do think?

Ahhh?

Ahh?
I HATE BANANAS!!!!!!!!!

	13-08-2002 00:33									#40
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I'd like to remind our whole currency system is very young, and the only way to evaluate the valor of coins is through their weight and metal.

I say one ounce of Iron is worth 100 ounces of copper (for example, a 2-grammes iron coin would be worth 200 grammes of bronze coins).
And one ounce of gold is worth 1000 ounces of iron.

Maybe there should be one standard weight for coins (say, 2 grammes), and the metal changes the value of the coin drastically.
Or maybe we should do different coins depending on the metal (I mean, different pictures)

Of course, all values in our treasury are expressed in gold pieces. Currently, with so little gold in our country, only the state has such coins, and some people who get to manage the treasury
All values in our country are expressed in gold coins.

	13-08-2002 00:40									#41
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I found a few sites that talk about the banana dollar. They called it this because the bills featured different fruits. I guess there was also something coconut related Though none of the sites I found said why the money was printed in English.

	13-08-2002 00:56									#42
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Why does Epi get a coin, and not me, I am a Justice too, and I saved Moral Hazard from those darn French. And I was the first justice to close a case, see Trevman v. UberKruX, docket no. 0003. And I did some amendment drafting. And I discovered oranges, and boat (banana float). And did some other real neat things, too.

I should be worth at least a few buggers. Or at least put my picture on one of them.

	13-08-2002 02:17									#43
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AAarrrrgh.

Why are you trying to keep this divisibal by 10. Lousy bugger of a method to divide thing I say.

If I use the word Bana - knowing that it will soon change - I see that the Bana = 1. Everybody knows just how big a bana is, and what it is usefull for. Knowing that, I can see how it can easiely be divided into 12 equal parts, as often done by our draftsmen when making scall drawings. One bana/12 = 50 bana in reality. Each of these parts (bana/12), can easiely be divided into a 16th. Thus we have bana/12/16. Our craftmen use this to measure how thick wood is for example.

The bana can also be readily multiplied. a bana*3 is very common. Many of our athletic competitions use the bana*3 as a distance for jumping for example. Also, 5280 bana's is common for long distances. How many 5280Bana's per hour are you traveling.

So please, with this new fangles money thing, do not divide our bana by 10. It makes no sence. Instead, please use the common, everyday units of division we have for the bana. What could be easier?

	13-08-2002 03:13									#44
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I agree with GodKing, it is silly to divide by ten. The ONLY argument for the 10 is the fact that most of our citizens have ten fingers, that's it. Which slights our accident-prone and overly fingered citizens.

12 and 16 are far more useful, as the use of those divisions is applicable to other activities and is a commonplace activity.

And I believe our first currency should be based on something our citizens are comfortable with the value of. We are asking them to make a radical change in their everday barter system. Later it could be refined to something more abstract.

	13-08-2002 03:27									#45
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OK, then. A Lyton (iron coin) is worth 144 Apo (bronze coin). And a gold coin is worth 1728 Lyton. You're right these figures will be more convenient to our citizens.

However, for convenience purpose, I suggest we make special coins for the wealthy, a mix between iron and gold, which will be worth of 12 Lyton. only 144 of these mixed pieces will be worth a gold coin (a "kilyton" ? )

	13-08-2002 04:06									#46
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I must disagree with our Minister of economics on his coversion rates. Our ministers of demographics (F11) tell us that we have a GNP of 45 million gold and a population of 405,000 citizens in our empire. If each each Lyton is only 1/1728 of one gold, then the average citizen is making 192,000 Lytons a year... how much will a single family home be worth? One million Lytons? talk about inflation!

I propose a more simple conversion rate, so that our citizens understand it and come to use it and love it (ie., lets not ruin this by making it so complex no one will uses Lyton, just keep talking about 'gold' or 'bananas'):

1 Lyton= 1 gold, so that currently, the PCI of our fair empire is 111 Lytons a year: if we figure a 72 hour workweek, with our people working 52 weeks (all this assumes the 365 day year) a year, then the average hourly wage for our fair state is 2.9 Apos an hour, assuming 100 Apos to the Lyton. And what of Lytons and Bananas? I say that a banana should be set at 1 Apo: so that our citizens, in their average day, are getting 35 bananas, certainly enough to feed our populace and maintain a good standard of living.

As for coins, I stand by the decimal system- this damnfangled Bana system can only lead to confusiuon and monatery collapse. Remeber, we are an uneductaed populace, so people need a system based on their fingers!

I stand by the divisions I stated for, and I also still like the nicknames, thought if people want to add new ones, go ahead.

	13-08-2002 06:16									#47
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Mmmmh, I have to say Gepap has a point. I didn't think about the ineducation of our populace, who'll have to use their fingers to count.
I suppose the decimal system is what we should go for. And Gepap's converion (a banana = 1 Apo) seems fair.
However, should we control the prices of bananas across the empire, with the risk of an underproduction, or should we let prices go as high as they want (with the risk of starvation) ?

OK, so what do you think of :

1 Apo = bronze coin. Easily tradable for a banana.
10 Apos = iron coin. It can feed a family for a day. We should think of a cool name for this. What do you think of a "Poly" (not very original, but it remains consistent)
1 Lyton = gold coin. Used by the wealthy and the State. We can hope for a bigger supply of gold, when we'll exploit gold mines.

I don't think we can afford more pieces for the moment, because we must let the idea spread progressively in the society. More coins will have to be done when we'll master currency more, and when the society will be more used to it.

All coins should be molded in the Ministry of the Economy, by expert coiners. Of course, Apolyton will get coins more rapidly than other cities, but that's the edge of being the capital

Now, we should think of cool symbols to put on our coins. Banana are quite deja-vu, so I'd go for something else.
I'd say Apos get a spear ; Iron coins get a sword. Lytons get a Temple, or an ankh of some sort (something to show our non-military greatness). We could also put the heads of our prez on them (Chrono, Milhouse, Vegeta)

PS : Wait, I just had an idea to call the Iron coin ! What about a "Dankos" (from Dan and MarkG). It's consistent with the Apolyton spirit without being redundant with the 2 other names. What do you think ?

	13-08-2002 06:58									#48
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Spiffor- I like

The name Dankos (though hopefully not confused with dank) works well, as a tribute to ancient and now almost forgotten founders (our Remus and Romulus,as it were).

I think we would need a few more denominations of coins thought- what if I wanted to buy 37 bananas? that would be 3 polys and 7 Apos (I still like buggers!), ten coins!

To keep it simple:
1,5,10,25,50 Apo coins. (that way no purchase need more than 9 coins if its under a Lyton.) [like Captain recommeded]
1,2,5,10,20,50,100 Lyton something, coins or bills.

As for what they are made, we have metals yes, but we should also remmeber various other possible materials- stones and shells and so forth. Perhaps a cool idea for high end denominations, now that we control the local dye trade, would be reams of dyed clothing- lets say, 100 Lytons for 20 yards of dyed cloth or something of the sort.

As for imegary of the coins- actually, I don't think the banana should be on any of them, perhaps besides the 1 Apo coin- (so our ignorant peasants remember what it equals). I like the notion of egyptian imagery and of past leaders, but not only presidents (I have heard that the Americans have put men such as thier first economic minister, a fellow called Hamilton, on some of their currency.)

	13-08-2002 08:28									#49
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This is my proposal, a variant on Spiffor's system.

Base Unit = 1 Apo (bronze). Equal to price of banana.

10 Apo = 1 Dankos (iron). Can feed a family for a day. Main coin used in the working/low class.

100 Dankos = 1 silver coin (still needs a name). Would be used primarily by the trading class/middle class/artisans, and for many commercial interests.

100 silver coin = 1 Lyton (gold). Used by the state, the aristocratic class, and in very large commercial interests.

So:
1 Lyton = 100000 Apo.
1 Lyton = 10000 Dankos.
1 silver coin = 1000 Apo.

	13-08-2002 12:33									#50
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What does Dankos mean?

Also, I suggest to consider the fact that people don't have 100 fingers - but rather 10. And that is prone to accidents.

So 7 is a safe number. Almost anyone has 7 fingers by now (500 BC or so).


I suggest this:

1 Apo is a base bronze coin.
7 Apo is a Markos - an iron coin.
49 Apo is 7 Markos is a Dankos - a silver coin.
343 Apo is 49 Markos is 7 Dankos is a Lyton - a gold coin.

(But I agree to use 6 to consider the poorer less educated areas of the jungle)

Note: when nuclear power stations arrive (nosterdamus told me about those) we shall have to account it to the number of of fingers resulting from nuclear radiation - probably between 12 and 17.

	13-08-2002 12:35									#51
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Banknotes (also termed spiffors) should feature the avatars of our presidents or something.

But that comes only with pritning press.

	13-08-2002 19:12									#52
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Sirotnikov,
Hi!
What about your Democracy Game web site?

	13-08-2002 20:22									#53
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Apparently the discussion was moot, Lyton is the name of currency whether you like it or not.

	13-08-2002 22:03									#54
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GhengisFarb :
If you have a better idea (which has nothing to do with the banana), feel free to share it. Thinking about the Lyton took roughly 2 minutes, and I was surprised by the support it had : indeed I expected everyone to give his own name suggestion.
I'll set up a poll about this in about 24 hours. Giving a name to our currency will be my last decision as the MoE.
I'd like to point out several people made good points (I didn't invent the Apo, I had no idea on decimal system or not), and I didn't control the whole thing.

	13-08-2002 22:17									#55
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something simple is good, decimal system is nice IMO. (okay, so I'm biased because I envision this great parallel economy/stockmarket game and it would be easier to run with a simple currency system).

	14-08-2002 04:17									#56
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I think the name Lyton won becuase, first, its simple and catchy , anything with a word lik banana isn't, plus it connects well with our history as members of this site, plus it avoids any controversy of being named after any individual. I think Apo is a simple connection to make if we had Lyton.

I must continue to stand by a decimal system- everyone uses it nowadays- why change what works and what has become ingrained in peoples minds? Any base other than 10 simply will create confusion, which is not worth it.

I am glad the 1 Apo= 1 banana conversion stuck, since it allows us to preempt those that insist on the continued use of bananas.

	14-08-2002 06:47									#57
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I just went to the demographics page, and I've seen something terrifying :
The annual income per capita is "3" ! Provided it's 3 Lytons, it would mean that people earn less than 1 Apo a day !
How can we imagine managing a great empire if so many people can't even afford their daily banana ? Do we really want to put our population into misery ?
(plus, it is an averaged result, which doesn't take wealth differences into account : this means most of the poor are even more miserable)

For these very reasons, I suggest an Apo = 1/1000th of a Lyton = a banana. This way, even the poorest of our country can continu to feed themselves and their families

New project is :
1 Apo = 1 bronze coin = 1 banana
1 Dankos = 1 iron coin = 10 Apos
1 Lyton = 1 gold coin = 100 Dankos = 1000 Lyton.

What do you think ?

	14-08-2002 06:57									#58
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Why not just say that the gold in the game represents 1000 Lytons or something like that?

After all, one citizen head counts as more than just 1 person. It represents thousands.


Then we can keep our 100 apos = 1 Lyton. Or if you like Dankos that much, then 10 000 Apos = 100 Dankos = 1 Lyton.

	14-08-2002 07:28									#59
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Why Dankos? What does it mean?

I suggest Markos as well

	14-08-2002 07:29									#60
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Captain :
I think a gold icon in game represents several Lytons already. The State gets 50 gold icons total (+19 gpt net result), so it's obvious a mere individual doesn't get 3 gold icons a year. Hence, a gold icon is worth many Lytons (i think 1000 is appropriate)

A citizen get 3 basic units of currency each year. Let's say it's a Lyton. That would mean he gets around 0.82 Apos each day, on a 365 day-per-year basis.
I'm not in love with the "Dankos" (I just had this idea coming out from my head, hope someone will find something better), but we need a very small money unit for the common people to use (the Apos), and a very valuable currency unit we'll use asealthy investors and staesmen.
To avoid too much confusion, I think we'd need an intermediary coin (mayeb called differently than Dankos). Indeed making a 1 Dankos = 10 Apos = 1/100th of Lyton would be a pretty easy conversion for our minds used to 1/100th conversions.

Maybe we could make 100 Apos = 1 Dankos, but we'll have to create way too many coins in this case.

Edit : Sio :
Dankos is a name I came up with, a mix between "Dan" and "Markos". But I admit this idea isn't terrific, so if you have other suggestion, please post them