26-08-2002 13:07									#151
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You know what -- I'm out. We've argued about the NEP here about a dozen times.

What it ends up being is the typical east vs west drivel over and over again.

People from the East essentially say "Oh come on, it wasn't that bad, suck it up!" and people from the West feeling insulted that the East was trying to belittle a very serious problem that shaped what Alberta is today.

blackice, Tingkai, & co won't change their mind and will probably still insist the NEP is a good thing. That's fine. I just keep telling myself that it's only natural that half of the people in the world are of below average intelligence.

Take care everyone.

	26-08-2002 13:29									#152
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Does this means that Asher's going to run away back to CG so that he can attack people behind their back?

Since you're back from your ban and you can defend yourself, let me start by saying that thread of yours over at CG was pathetic and one of the most childish things you have done here. If you want to criticize me, at least have the courtesy to do it where I will see it.

	26-08-2002 13:35									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Does this means that Asher's going to run away back to CG so that he can attack people behind their back? Since you're back from your ban and you can defend yourself, let me start by saying that thread of yours over at CG was pathetic and one of the most childish things you have done here. If you want to criticize me, at least have the courtesy to do it where I will see it.

You did know I was banned here, right? And you do know I would have said the exact same things to you if I was allowed to here as well?

Comon, it's not like I tried to hide it. I said I didn't care if he linked it.

But hey, you act like a friggin' moron and sometimes people mock you from afar. C'est la vie.

I still do chuckle when I think about someone, out of the blue, blaming The West for Trudeau doing martial law in Quebec. Were you high or something at the time, or just trolling? or both?

	26-08-2002 13:37									#154
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quote: Originally posted by blackice MattHiggs: quote: Oh my God, I think I just remembered something. You are that guy that got the divorce aren't you? The one that hates women and is bitter and twisted. notyoueither: quote: Bingo. Blackice: quote: MattHiggs wrong guy but nice try, it is no wonder people do not like you. Very easy to see why. Look they started the BS club of disinformation to make themselves look more important then they are. Flakes. notyoueither: quote: Summary. No, I am not the **** you think I am. Lies too. Original. Blackice: quote: For instance find one comment by me that I say I hate women... Good luck that old ruse went out with the last flake. notyoueither: quote: No blackice, no quotes hating women, to the contrary actually. I called you on the lie and you admitted it was not true. Now you come here and post the half truth and continue to claim I lied even though you know it was you and you admitted to it. You then go on with the "you hate Albertans" mantra which is a lie also. No I do not I have said that many times. Flake and extremely bad trolling.

No blackice, no quotes hating women, to the contrary actually.

Only, your typing ability and social skills have led many to misinterpret you. I used to be symathetic. Used to be.

I have no time for people who have irrational hatreds for me and where I am from though. So, c ya.
---

Try quoting the whole post. Nice try.

Why didn't you clear that up there then?

Bah.

You are the one who goes on, and on, and on, and on, an on... about your pet hates. Used to be I could see some possible explantion for it. You've been jobbed, and you are now an activist to help other people learn about other sides to the questions of gender equity.

But, then you start with the crap about how Alberta and Albertans are just deluded. No, the federal Liberals have never done anything that wasn't in our own best interest. We just don't know better.

I ask you if you know what it is that so many people in Alberta are pissed off about. You reward me with a rant. I say, OK. Here's the view from an Albertan who lived through it and paid attention. I pointed out just what ****ed us up, and I provided a link to a CP article that acknowledeged that high interest rates were bad for us too but that the NEP was what turned a mild recession into something much worse. [see the following post]

You threw that back in my face and off to the races you went.

Bah. Either your reading comprehension matches your typing skills (in which case you are as stupid as you express yourself) or you are truely twisted about a number of things. When that involves where I come from, I'm gonna call your sh!t on it. Get used to it.

	26-08-2002 13:39									#155
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Quoted from a Canadian Press item published by canoe.ca and linked to earlier.

Here's the link, again.
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSTrudeauNew...rudeau5-cp.html

But beware, Ralph Klein is quoted in it, so it must be evil.

The general conclusion of most economists, and not just in Alberta, is that the NEP "was unwise and didn't work and quite negative in its consequences," said Ted Chambers, of the Western Centre for Economic Research, based at the University of Alberta.

It didn't help that the early 1980s were also a time of sky-high interest rates that reached 20 per cent and inflation rates of up to 13 per cent. The poor economic conditions would plunge the entire country into a major recession in 1981-82.

Chambers suggested the general recession also contributed greatly to Alberta's misfortunes, and that Trudeau's government shouldn't have to shoulder all the blame.

However, Mansell maintained that if it wasn't for the NEP, Alberta would have experienced a mild recession instead of widespread misery.

/Edit. Mansell is...

Robert Mansell, head of the economics department at the University of Calgary

Last edited by notyoueither on 26-08-2002 at 13:54

	26-08-2002 13:56									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I think Loif was on to something. You both exhibit the telltale signs of jealousy. Whether you're truly jealous or not isn't known, but you sure do act like it.

What makes this more funny is that it comes after I responded to Loif. Jealous of Alberta? Like I said before, what's there to envy?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Like Tingkai's absolutely ridiculous troll about the West and martial law in Quebec

No doubt you see it that way since you have some strange inability to understand basic politics.

quote: Originally posted by Asher In particular I'm thinking of Tingkai's own contradiction-within-a-post he had several posts ago. He admits that Chretien doesn't need to worry about pissing off Albertans, and then he goes on to say that he doesn't like it when Albertans complain about that. Who wouldn't complain about that? You contribute, by far, the most per capita to Canada. What do you get? A government which ignores you and a population which gives you the finger and calls you whiners whenever you ask what the hell is going on.

As they say in Hong Kong, Aye-ya.

Asher reminds me of a Discworld book where a bunch of philosopher are in a bar and fight breaks out. One of the philosophers says:

"All I was trying to do was illustrate a logical conundrum when I got punched. I just said that if Issac The Ephebian says All Ephebians are liars...

"See! There he goes again," Bob the Ephebian shouts. "He's saying all Ephebians are liars. I'm going to kill him."

Okay Asher, let me explain to it one more time. I know there is very little chance that you will understand this basic concept of politics, but I'll try it anyways.

If Alberta always votes conservative, then the Liberals have no politcal incentive to help that region. If the Liberals help, Alberta still votes conservative.

This, however, does not mean Alberta has no power. It does not mean that Alberta has no ability to influence federal policies. It does not mean that Alberta is being screwed by Easterners.

Albertans make a choice to always vote conservative. No one is forcing them to vote this way. They have to accept responsibility for the way they vote.

Besides, Alberta has plenty of influence when Conservative Federal governments are elected. But the chances of influencing federal policies are low because of what Albertans have done in the past, namely the creation of the Reform/CA/CRAP which has split the vote and allowed the Liberals to walk up the middle.

If the Reform/CA/CRAP did not exist, then it is highly possible that the Conservatives would be in power. Therefore, the Albertans who created Reform/CA/CRAP have had a gigantic influence on the Canadian political landscape.

Simple really. Understand? Probably not.

	26-08-2002 13:58									#157
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And as illustrated with numbers earlier, it ain't the voters in Western Canada that are the problem. Understand?

	26-08-2002 14:01									#158
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notyoueither you have trolled, misquoted, ignored, lied and generally became an idiot here. Congrats!

I have stated the facts honestly. People get tired of the NEP, trudeau 20 year-old, some loser from Alberta diatribe. Especially when it is full of delusion and misinformation yes.

I just presented the facts and the whole story not the disected propaganda from the vote seeking government of Alberta.

Sorry you two missed all that maybe stop trolling and start reading? Like for the last time I grew up in Alberta and Ontario during this time you keep missing that part too.


Plonk you were gone?

	26-08-2002 14:02									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You did know I was banned here, right? And you do know I would have said the exact same things to you if I was allowed to here as well?

This may surprise you, but I don't keep track on whether you have been banned.

And you miss the point. If you were banned then you should have waited until after ban had ended. The fact that you were banned does not justify your actions.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Comon, it's not like I tried to hide it.

You started a thread specifically designed to attack me on a website that I never visit. I call that hiding.

quote: Originally posted by Asher But hey, you act like a friggin' moron and sometimes people mock you from afar. C'est la vie.

Your immaturity is showing. Stop blaming other people for your own stupidity. Accept responsibility for your actions. That's what people do when they grow up.

	26-08-2002 14:07									#160
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quote: Originally posted by blackice notyoueither you have trolled, misquoted, ignored, lied and generally became an idiot here. Congrats! I have stated the facts honestly. People get tired of the NEP, trudeau 20 year-old, some loser from Alberta diatribe. Especially when it is full of delusion and misinformation yes.

People will judge what has been posted in this thread, and others for themselves.

But, you are amasing. Really you are.

Honest? Let me know when you begin, but then again I don't think I could accept your word for it.

	26-08-2002 14:08									#161
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So how many mistakes in facts is that in this thread, Tingkai?

	26-08-2002 14:11									#162
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quote: If Alberta always votes conservative, then the Liberals have no politcal incentive to help that region. If the Liberals help, Alberta still votes conservative.

Actually the feds dump mega bucks into Alberta always have and continue to do so. Generally it is met with "they are trying to buy our vote" BS.

History shows that time and time again.

quote: Your immaturity is showing. Stop blaming other people for your own stupidity. Accept responsibility for your actions. That's what people do when they grow up.

Good luck with that Asher how many people have to tell you that before it sinks in?

Oh Take care, thanks

	26-08-2002 14:11									#163
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither So how many mistakes in facts is that in this thread, Tingkai?

What exactly are you trying to say.

	26-08-2002 14:14									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai What exactly are you trying to say.

How many times have you spouted something off, and been proved to be wrong?

	26-08-2002 14:16									#165
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Actually the feds dump mega bucks into Alberta always have and continue to do so. Generally it is met with "they are trying to buy our vote" BS.

You're full of sh!t, and tomorrow I'll dig up the references, unless you want to back up your bull sh!t in the mean time.

	26-08-2002 14:19									#166
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither How many times have you spouted something off, and been proved to be wrong?

Once, and I admitted that I was wrong, and even put the correction in bold.

	26-08-2002 14:32									#167
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quote: Try quoting the whole post. Nice try.

I did not want to embarass you.

quote: Why didn't you clear that up there then?

Clear what up? You are very hard to follow I have no dea what you are talking about? I cleared up every misinformed, lie you made.

quote: You are the one who goes on, and on, and on, and on, an on... about your pet hates.

Pet hates? Is that what you call posting about misandry?

quote: But, then you start with the crap about how Alberta and Albertans are just deluded.

Some of you are and?

quote: No, the federal Liberals have never done anything that wasn't in our own best interest. We just don't know better.

I did not say that at all, more lies.

quote: I ask you if you know what it is that so many people in Alberta are pissed off about.

You did where? When I was there they were pissed off at the feds the easteners and 20 year-old federal policies and leaders long since dead. Not much has changed for some I see.

quote: Here's the view from an Albertan who lived through it and paid attention.

And? Pay attention.

quote: I pointed out just what ****ed us up, and I provided a link to a CP article that acknowledeged that high interest rates were bad for us too but that the NEP was what turned a mild recession into something much worse.

And no one is disputing that at least I am not. What I am saying is at that time it was the best thing for the country. You know that place where Alberta is? Canada? I am also pointing out the government of Alberta turned off the wells and hurt the economy too. I am pointing out the government out there with all it's revenue did nothing to ensure Alberta's position at the time.

quote: You threw that back in my face and off to the races you went.

If stating the facts is throwing it back in your face then you need help.

quote: Either your reading comprehension matches your typing skills (in which case you are as stupid as you express yourself) or you are truely twisted about a number of things.

You shuld maybe pay more attention to what you say, seems to me it applies to you more. In fact it is pretty obvious...

quote: When that involves where I come from, I'm gonna call your sh!t on it. Get used to it.

Well call it with facts not stupidity, trolling etc.

quote: People will judge what has been posted in this thread, and others for themselves.

Yes that is why I jump on every misquote, lie, troll and other tactics you have used to appear the hero. Now other than propaganda and an article from a rag. Endless minor off topic post's what did you do to convince the readers you are right or a hero?

quote: But, you are amasing. Really you are.

Did you mean amazing? Thanks, speaking of typing skills though.

quote: Honest? Let me know when you begin, but then again I don't think I could accept your word for it.

It appears it would be, is wasted on you. I'll wait for someone with more on the ball thanks.

	26-08-2002 14:36									#168
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And where did this all begin with in this thread?

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Well the West got their just desserts. They did nothing to oppose the suspension of basic rights in Quebec. Then a few years later, the old autocratic decides to take a share of the oil revenues.

quote: Originally posted by blackice You give me a link to a Klien article how pathetic can you get... Save it for the next generation of Albertans I prefer to read the truth...

Now don't give me any bull sh!t about Western whining.

You take shots, prepare to receive them.

The pair of you demonstrate to me everything that is wrong about this country for me and mine.

You are exemplars of the things that show a lack of a future for the West in Canada.

Keep it up, maybe you will convince a larger number of people to share your bigoted views. Not like you need any reinforcements. I've seen enough of your brand of crap in my time on this earth.

I guess the 2 of you will be well and truely pleased when a large part of the western region of your nation tells the rest where to shove it and breaks off to find it's own future.

My hope is that more people will begin to be able to accept the differences between us all, and will begin to accept that all Canadians have points of view, interests, and aspirations.

However, you won't build a nation by calling down people from certain regions and trampling on their political and economic interests. God, I feel like I'm from Quebec. It's funny how the interests of Alberta and Quebec have coincided so frequently lately.

	26-08-2002 14:39									#169
	Put an end to popups!

I said the west did nothign to oppose the War Measures Act. That statement is true.

Try again.

	26-08-2002 14:41									#170
	Remove this text

quote: You're full of sh!t, and tomorrow I'll dig up the references, unless you want to back up your bull sh!t in the mean time.

Let's start with the NOP as previously meantioned by me.
Boy that was full of *hit right? NOP the thing you never hear a brainwashed Albertan like you talk about. I will end with Cretien and the liberals were this past week accused of that very thing in Alberta... You don't read much by way of news do you?

	26-08-2002 14:42									#171
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

blackice.

You can squirm all you want. You won't get off the hook. You know why? Everyone exposed to you comes to the same conclusion.

Hello, calling Mars. Come in Mars. Sorry, no connection.

	26-08-2002 14:45									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai I said the west did nothign to oppose the War Measures Act. That statement is true. Try again.

No.

You are a fool if you believe the west could have, and should have done something about crushing armed insurrection.

BTW, nobody else did either. Keep racking up the points though. You might win something eventually.

	26-08-2002 14:50									#173
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quote: Now don't give me any bull sh!t about Western whining.

Then stop whinning about 20 year-old policies and politics.

quote: You take shots, prepare to receive them.

If you have any I may notice them.

quote: The pair of you demonstrate to me everything that is wrong about this country for me and mine.

Yes reality is what is wrong with this country...

quote: You are exemplars of the things that show a lack of a future for the West in Canada.

Why because we ask for the truth?

quote: Keep it up, maybe you will convince a larger number of people to share your bigoted views. Not like you need any reinforcements. I've seen enough of your brand of crap in my time on this earth.

Bigoted where? Show me some quotes ok?

quote: I guess the 2 of you will be well and truely pleased when a large part of the western region of your nation tells the rest where to shove it and breaks off to find it's own future.

That is what is wrong with this country, me,me,me attitude just like yours.

quote: My hope is that more people will begin to be able to accept the differences between us all, and will begin to accept that all Canadians have points of view, interests, and aspirations.

I do, do you?

quote: However, you won't build a nation by calling down people from certain regions and trampling on their political and economic interests. God, I feel like I'm from Quebec. It's funny how the interests of Alberta and Quebec have coincided so frequently lately.

Well stop the eastern bashing already, and then get your facts straight. Then stop whining about sharing and I think we can get along.
The NOP and the NEP are classic examples of that.

	26-08-2002 14:52									#174
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quote: blackice. You can squirm all you want. You won't get off the hook. You know why? Everyone exposed to you comes to the same conclusion. Hello, calling Mars. Come in Mars. Sorry, no connection.

What are you going on about? Anyone else know?
How many times have I asked that question today?
Why do I bother

I am off to work take care people

	26-08-2002 15:01									#175
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Squirm little fishy.

	26-08-2002 16:26									#176
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well that was refreshing.

	26-08-2002 16:30									#177
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You are a fool if you believe the west could have, and should have done something about crushing armed insurrection.

Armed insurrection? Is that what you call the kidnapping of two people. Going a bit overboard on the hyperbole, eh.

And in response to the kidnappings: the army was sent in, civil rights were thrown out the window, innocent people were jailed without just cause.

Yes, people should have protested the War Measures Act.

	26-08-2002 16:35									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Armed insurrection? Is that what you call the kidnapping of two people. Going a bit overboard on the hyperbole, eh. And in response to the kidnappings: the army was sent in, civil rights were thrown out the window, innocent people were jailed without just cause. Yes, people should have protested the War Measures Act.

Cabinet ministers and foreign diplomats. Nope, there was no threat at all to peace and government.

At any rate, who else rebelled over it? And why should the West even be involved in the equation?

	26-08-2002 16:37									#179
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't know why the "not doing anything" part is being blamed only on the west. Nobody outside of Quebec gave a ****.
As a matter of fact, the westerners could say that Ontario is the only part of Canada which would have had enough weight, demographicaly or politicaly, to pressure the PM.

	26-08-2002 16:47									#180
	Re: Hi-o! Got spare money?

Some people can't take a joke.

quote: Originally posted by Asher 1) I don't see the Marintime's hockey teams doing much better. Hell, even Quebec/Ontario's are doing shitty.

Let's see, we're talking about what Alberta doesn't have and Asher suddenly talks about the lack of NHL teams in the Maritimes. Well, he's right. And that's one good reason not to envy them.

As for teams in Quebec and Ontario doing shitty, obviously Asher doesn't pay attention to hockey and once again he is talking about things he knows nothing about.

Fact: Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa all made it to the playoffs last year.
Fact: Edmonton and Calgary did not.

`nough said.

quote: Originally posted by Asher 2) This one is such a bogus statement. There's plenty of Culture.... there's the plethora of night clubs (even several gay bars in Calgary! Imagine that

Ahh, the definition of culture in Alberta.

quote: Originally posted by Asher 3) This [the lack of world class universities] mostly has to do with the fact that, until the 70s, Alberta wasn't really heavily populated.

So you admit that Alberta lacks these world-class universities, despite having the money to fund such institutions.

quote: Originally posted by Asher 4) We lack semicolons?

Insert any one of many things that Alberta lacks, you must have a long list since you want to leave Canada so badly.

quote: Originally posted by Asher 5) http://www.alberta-canada.com/invest/diveco.cfm http://www.wiredwiredwest-alberta.c...ut_alberta.html http://www.abchamber.ca/Doing_Busin...ing+Economy.htm

If Alberta had a truly diverse economy, would it really need to advertise the existence of this economy. It sounds rather desparate. ("Really, it's true. We have a diverse economy. Some of our companies even operate in this high technology stuff).

quote: Originally posted by Asher PS, wouldn't the real Cowboys be in Alberta, and the wannabes be in Rural Ontario? I say this because my relatives in rural Ontario are some of the biggest hicks I know (they were originally from Quebec, for what it's worth). He works for the Ford plant and drives a pickup and lives on a farm.

Let me get this right. You claim your relative is a hick and a wannabe cowboy because he drives a pick-up truck and lives on a farm. (You must be the hit of the party at family gatherings). Meanwhile, you want us to believe that all those Calgarian office workers who dress up in stetsons and cowboy hats are the real cowboys.