27-08-2002 10:46									#211
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We've already sold all the bombers.

	27-08-2002 10:47									#212
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I figure if we fly the helicopters over major urban centers in the west they'll fall out of the sky within an hour due to mechanical failure, so we can make them look like an accident.

	27-08-2002 10:49									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger We've already sold all the bombers.

Then why do those Liberals constantly dump money into a company like Bombardier, hmmmm?

We know. We are wise.

	27-08-2002 15:46									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The problem is clearly all of the Westerners having an opinion. Perhaps we should use federal funds to simply carpetbomb the west? How does that sound, Jean?

The Liberals already tried to bomb Alberta, but after slashing military funding to nothing, they were forced to rent bombers from the Americans. That led to the unfortunate incident of the American bombers missing their targets and bombing Saskatchewan. Fortunately, there were no casaulties. Everyone had already left the province.

(And before NYE starts taking a sh!tfit and starts screaming bigot, there's an old Saskatchewan joke about the last one to leave the province should turn off the lights).

	27-08-2002 15:59									#215
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Then why do those Liberals constantly dump money into a company like Bombardier, hmmmm? We know. We are wise.

The only reason you ask is because Bombardier is a Quebec based company. If it was from Ontario you wouldn't care.

	27-08-2002 20:18									#216
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That led to the unfortunate incident of the American bombers missing their targets and bombing Saskatchewan. Fortunately, there were no casaulties. Everyone had already left the province.

Hey I am still here!

	27-08-2002 20:52									#217
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quote: Albertans aren't very fond of the current system

No body is, that is the part you don't get.

quote: and it backfired horribly

It kept Canada alive.

quote: So I don't see that as an advantage.

Maybe not for a rich spoiled kid, let's see just a guess your dad is worth about $800,000/year. Most of the average income people in the world would love to have it. The fact is most of the planet makes far less than the average income. I suppose when you have to pay for your own everything...you will understand it's value.

quote: computer science

Humm I thought you said Alberta had a strong tech sector? It seems to me the provinces are equally responsible for bringing in companies and industries.
But blame the Feds...

quote: I'm not an isolated case

And you are not the majority either, seems to me you claim Alberta is way ahead of the others. Seems to me Alberta is almost debt free, seems to me Alberta is doing mighty fine. So what are you *****ing about?

Let's have a look:

1. The fact that 10% of the population does not have a majority say over the rest or at least equal.

2. Twenty year-old policies that are obviously meaningless now.

3. PET who has been dead for some time now and been out of Canadian politics for what 30 years.

4. Kyoto a program designed to cut pollution to save lives and ensure a clean planet for future generations.

5. The rest of Canada who look at what you have and the fact you still whine the way you do and what you whine about and tell you your an idiot.

I do not need to list what you have out there that is great. You have bragged about it endlessly on every thread that meantions anything to do with Canada. Alberta has it great right now it is a wonderful place to live. Half the planet would die and some do die trying to make it to this great country we call Canada.

Looks shallow to me anyone else?

	27-08-2002 22:33									#218
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Bomber... Bombardier... Nahhh. Maybe it is time to turn out the lights on this one.

Last word, Tingkai. I know how you feel. It is kind of annoying to have everything you say readily dismissed by the simple use of a label, isn't it?

	27-08-2002 23:44									#219
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quote: Then why do those Liberals constantly dump money into a company like Bombardier, hmmmm?

It's a world class company bringing in millions of dollars. It is trying to compete with other world class companies who are heavily subsidised by thier governments.

Too easy.

	28-08-2002 00:10									#220
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quote: Originally posted by blackice No body is, that is the part you don't get.

So if everyone is equally as furious with the Canadian federal government, how come it hasn't changed? I don't care if nobody is happy, I care that nothing is going to change about it.

quote: It kept Canada alive.

Canada would have survived perfectly fine without it and you know it.

quote: I thought you said Alberta had a strong tech sector? It seems to me the provinces are equally responsible for bringing in companies and industries. But blame the Feds...

It's certainly not Alberta's problem. They've done everything they can to encourage businesses to come here from the lowest taxes to the lowest royalties to investing very, very heavily into the universities. All of that in the world can't compete with the federal government subtly discouraging foreign investment in the oil industry by even threatening to sign Kyoto, or by their complete disregard for the opinions of Albertans federally.

quote: And you are not the majority either, seems to me you claim Alberta is way ahead of the others. Seems to me Alberta is almost debt free, seems to me Alberta is doing mighty fine. So what are you *****ing about?

You also missed the part about me constantly *****ing about an inept federal government, about a federal government with too much power, and about the rest of the country that just doesn't seem to care about that.

quote: 1. The fact that 10% of the population does not have a majority say over the rest or at least equal.

I'm one of those people who believe democracy should be about rule of the majority while respecting the rights of the minority. This doesn't happen in Canada, and I don't see why I should put up with it. Besides, I'd be a bad American if I stayed in Canada, and a bad Canadian if I moved to the US -- so I'm chosing to be a bad Canadian because I feel the federal government, with their current policies and attitude, don't deserve it.

quote: 2. Twenty year-old policies that are obviously meaningless now.

True, but the memories of them are still strong, particularly when Kyoto starts sounding familiar when economists talk about how it'll affect the energy sector.

quote: 4. Kyoto a program designed to cut pollution to save lives and ensure a clean planet for future generations.

I totally agree that pollution should be cut, blackice. It's just that Kyoto doesn't solve the problem. You do know that countries like China, who use some of the most inefficient factories and pollute A LOT and are developing so they pollute more faster than any other country -- they don't need to sign Kyoto. Countries like the United States has refused to sign it because it would substantially hurt the American economy while its "threats" in the world like China don't have their hands tied behind their back. The Alberta government is recommending other solutions to cutting back pollution, but all people like you want to do is sit there and say people are less human because Kyoto is a unilaterally good thing.

quote: 5. The rest of Canada who look at what you have and the fact you still whine the way you do and what you whine about and tell you your an idiot.

Hey, last I checked this was still a democracy at heart. People have a right to complain about it. What I find particularly amusing is Tingkai actually blamed the West for NOT WHINING when the Liberal PM grossly abused his powers, then turning around and *****ing about how the West whines about how the current system isn't right. Ahh, you gotta love the glorious hypocrisy of most Canadians -- but because they're in the majority Albertans not -- they're right, right?

quote: Half the planet would die and some do die trying to make it to this great country we call Canada.

Even more people would die and many more do die trying to make it to the greater country we call America.

quote: Looks shallow to me anyone else?

It's not shallow, it's realistic. The fact is, there's a better job market south for my field than anywhere else in Canada. The fact is, I'll get paid more and pay less taxes down there. The fact is, I'll have a federal government which more or less supports my views (even if Bush is a retard, he'll hopefully be gone by the time I get there). The fact is, I'm not just a Canadian, I'm also an American, and I have every right to move to the US.

I just don't like how Canada works on a federal level, add to that a poorer job market, and I don't think it's shallow at all to move. Looks smart to me, and to many other people. It's another problem Canada has called the brain drain, but the Liberals will sit there and tell you it's all a lie as well.

	28-08-2002 06:09									#221
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quote: So if everyone is equally as furious with the Canadian federal government

1. We have a dictatorial democracy
2. What choice was there? Doris? Was not going to happen.
We will go through changes just might not be in our lifetime

Let's face it Asher the world's politics have us by the *alls.
A few elites own us all period.

quote: Canada would have survived perfectly fine without it and you know it.

The only reason we had 16.5%? unemployment when oil hit what 400% increase. Was because of the oil keeping the factories going at a cheap rate. Now you show me how it would have kept going without that. Factories down east would have closed fast and a lot did.

quote: It's certainly not Alberta's problem

Bs get a grip Alberta can pass any provincial tax or rule they like to counter any Fed rule. That is simply a cop out. Alberta only within the last few years had the highest corpate tax base almost in Canada. That does not encourage business. In fact even today they are still behind the east in that type of business lure.

quote: federal government with too much power

How is this?

quote: This doesn't happen in Canada

Not true at all more BS that is what equalization payments are all about just for starters.
I could go on but it is obvious you need to read more about the government here and the way it works.

quote: True, but the memories of them are still strong

Only to Albertan's that listen to the Klien government's propaganda.
Kyoto has nothing to do with the NEP. Klien sows that seed to keep the next generation mad as hell and it creates votes, anamosity and people like you.

quote: It's just that Kyoto doesn't solve the problem.

China smina CANADA man 10,000 people in Ontario alone will die from pollution related illness this year alone. I could give a rats ass about China and they could give a rats ass about us. 1000 times the cash is put into traffic safty each year than pollution cutting measures. 1000 times less people die from traffic accidents than pollution. Pretty *ucking stupid IMHO.

quote: hypocrisy of most Canadians

He was right no one did a thing. Hypocrisy is having oil for 45 years and complaining about sharing it with the rest of the country, when the rest of the country keep Alberta going. In sweat and blood not in oil revenues which quite franky you never see. Try Ontario all the money that goes to equalization comes from the peoples pay. You have it good out there and still whine. That is Hypocracy.

quote: Even more people would die and many more do die trying to make it to the greater country we call America.

Well boy pack up quit school go to the states, work for your school, pay your bills and tell me what you think about life for a minute. I wish I had the power to put some young kid through school in your spot. Boot you the hell out and give it to someone who appreciates it. Works for it and respects what they have.

quote: It's not shallow

Yes everything you said was shallow totally. You have it good out there an whine the way you do and half of it is non-sense. So obviously color it any way you want I was not talking about you going to the States was I?

Your whole arguements and the flake NYE have been shallow and selfish, the rest is in my last post.

Now tell me what do you think it is ike down east, start with Ontario any idea?

	28-08-2002 06:22									#222
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Start here Asher this is the Parliament Library beautiful place. The picture does it no justice it is huge.

When I was a teen I had a private tour of the Parliament buildings. I even sat in Trudeaus chair in his office with my feet on his desk. When he came in I was stunded. All he said was "do you know how old that desk is"

He was a very nice man and very Canadian. I realize you can not relate to that but I am very Canadian too.
Like a lot of people my age I have lived in almost every city in this country.

You?

Do you know how old it is out here? One of the main highways here to T.O. was commisioned by a French king...

Now tell me what do you know about CANADA Asher?
Text book? Stories?

I'll tell you any Albertan that has lived or traveled outside of Alberta does not think like you.

21 years growing up in Alberta I can atest to that personally.

In other words Asher CANADA is about people, places, culture, acceptance and unity. That is what has been lacking in every single arguement you present and thank you for now making it very clear for all of us what you are all about.

It is not all money, fame, greed and power....

That is what separates us from the US...

Last edited by blackice on 28-08-2002 at 06:31

	28-08-2002 07:17									#223
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Bs get a grip Alberta can pass any provincial tax or rule they like to counter any Fed rule. That is simply a cop out.

Blackice, this should be fairly obvious to you, but Alberta's government can't do a damn thing about federal policies once they implement **** like Kyoto and have high progressive federal income taxes. I don't know why you're calling that BS, you either misunderstand what I'm saying or you're on an assortment of drugs.

quote: Alberta only within the last few years had the highest corpate tax base almost in Canada. That does not encourage business. In fact even today they are still behind the east in that type of business lure.

Link link link link link link link link.

quote: Not true at all more BS that is what equalization payments are all about just for starters. I could go on but it is obvious you need to read more about the government here and the way it works.

Um, just what do equalization payments do for a modern day Alberta?
Alberta's opinions and votes are marginalized since it's a minority which consistently votes conservative. The federal government doesn't have to, and doesn't, give a damn what Canadians living in Alberta think simply because it doesn't matter. Tingkai's brilliant solution to this is for Alberta to vote Liberal, and I haven't seen you give a solution. My solution is best, though.

quote: Only to Albertan's that listen to the Klien government's propaganda. Kyoto has nothing to do with the NEP. Klien sows that seed to keep the next generation mad as hell and it creates votes, anamosity and people like you.

No one said it has anything to do with the NEP, just that the ramifications (supported by economists all over the country, no less) will be nearly identical to the NEP. It won't be AS bad since Alberta's economy has diversified considerably since then, but it will hurt Alberta and the Ontario auto industry. Make no mistake about that.

quote: China smina CANADA man 10,000 people in Ontario alone will die from pollution related illness this year alone.

Can you provide a link to that study you've mentioned numerous times without warrant? I realize pollution is a problem, but look at the raw numbers.
Canada accounts for 2% of greenhouse gas emissions. Fact.
Reducing us to 1990 levels would make us account for 1.9% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions. While at the same time, those businesses which aren't polluting in Canada have moved south and increased the US' by the same amount. Kyoto isn't going to solve anything, morons wrote the treaty which is why anyone with a simple grasp of economics and scientific fact would refuse to sign it.

The only people endorsing it are the environmentalists which don't give a damn what happens to the country or don't give a damn if that pollution simply moves. They just hear "Kyoto good. Kyoto make world better. Kyoto save 10000 lives in Ontario alone and anyone who questions Kyoto is a murderer".

quote: He was right no one did a thing.

He is right, but Ontario s far more influencial and far larger than the West, why didn't he blame Ontario? He's being a moron, is the answer you're looking for. The West didn't do a thing, because there was nothing we could do.

Tingkai suggested we could protest with our votes, when the conservatives swept seats at the time anyway.
What is your brilliant suggestion of what the West could have done? Stage protests? We all know how much Trudeau appreciated protests, especially those from Westerners.

quote: Hypocrisy is having oil for 45 years and complaining about sharing it with the rest of the country

Who complained about that in this thread?

quote: when the rest of the country keep Alberta going.

There is no shortage of demand for Alberta oil south of the border or international, particularly in times like these, blackice.

quote: You have it good out there and still whine. That is Hypocracy.

Do you know what the definition of hypocrisy is? I'm just wondering, because it's clear to me that you don't.

quote: Well boy pack up quit school go to the states, work for your school, pay your bills and tell me what you think about life for a minute.

I do pay for my university. I would move south and go to school, but I'd have to pay many times the tuition simply because I'm an out of state student at the public universities. I didn't chose to live up here when I graduated high school, that's just how the cards fell, so I'm going to a public university here to save me thousands of dollars.

quote: Boot you the hell out and give it to someone who appreciates it. Works for it and respects what they have.

I do work for it, and I do appreciate it, but it's not like it's unique here. I could get the same damn thing south of the border if I lived in the state at the time, for a comparable price.

You seem to be forgetting that I'm also an American in addition to a Canadian. I don't have any more obligation to stay in Canada than I do to stay America. I've attended public schools in both countries and lived in both countries, it's just that I live in Canada now because of my dad's job. Not my choice.

quote: Yes everything you said was shallow totally. You have it good out there an whine the way you do and half of it is non-sense. So obviously color it any way you want I was not talking about you going to the States was I?

I have it good, but there is better.
To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about when you say it's shallow. People disagree with governments and people move to better job markets. If that's shallow, then so be it, but it makes sense to me.

quote: Now tell me what do you think it is ike down east, start with Ontario any idea?

All of my relatives live out east, and I've been there plenty, it's not like a whole 'nother world you know. It's just that they're politically backwards when electing federal governments is all.

quote: He was a very nice man and very Canadian. I realize you can not relate to that but I am very Canadian too. Like a lot of people my age I have lived in almost every city in this country. You?

I'm only half Canadian, and my American sensibility is telling me not to stay in a country where my province isn't appreciated.

quote: Now tell me what do you know about CANADA Asher? Text book? Stories?

For the life of me I'm trying to see how this is relevant to anything. I will be the first to admit I wasn't alive for the entire time Canada has existed, and I'm also the first to admit that it's irrelevant. I really don't care what principles Canada was founded on, I really don't care who comissioned highways in Ontario, I really don't care that you sat in Trudeau's chair and you think he's very Canadian. What I care about is living in a country that supports my political views and appreciates the contributions I would make to the country, to live in a country with a job market and tax system that allows me to support a family best, and live in a country that makes me proud.

Call me a nasty Canadian, but the truth is there's not much to be proud of in Canada these days. Whether it's the underfunded health care system, the underfunded military, the insane taxes, and a Prime Minister which is as dumb and senile as an ape. There's something to be said when Bush is smarter than another world leader, don't you think?

quote: I'll tell you any Albertan that has lived or traveled outside of Alberta does not think like you. 21 years growing up in Alberta I can atest to that personally.

I don't care what everyone else thinks -- is that how you live your life, blackice? Do you form your opinions based on what people around you think? Shameful, if you ask me.

quote: In other words Asher CANADA is about people, places, culture, acceptance and unity.

UNITY? My God. Quebec threatens to celebrate, the west feels alienated, and you talk about unity?

quote: It is not all money, fame, greed and power.... That is what separates us from the US...

How long and where have you lived in the US, blackice?

The country you live in is what you make of it. You don't have to live in Canada, I don't either, and I find it disturbing that you're so upset when people want to leave Canada.

Canada isn't for everyone, not everyone shares the beliefs that most Canadians have. And considering I'm an American-Canadian, I don't think you're in any position to criticize me for where I want to move. I'm a citizen of both countries, and the US fits my ideals more than Canada. Deal with that and love me anyway.

	28-08-2002 07:59									#224
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Last word, Tingkai. I know how you feel. It is kind of annoying to have everything you say readily dismissed by the simple use of a label, isn't it?

Now that was a good comeback.

Damm, can't think of good response.

	28-08-2002 08:01									#225
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Do you know how old it is out here? One of the main highways here to T.O. was commisioned by a French king...

Which highway? Which king?

	28-08-2002 08:09									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So if everyone is equally as furious with the Canadian federal government, how come it hasn't changed? I don't care if nobody is happy, I care that nothing is going to change about it.

Anyone older than say 30 would be able to answer this: We're sick and tired about hearing, reading and talking about constitutional change. It seemed like during the 80's, every day there would be a front page story about the latest constitutional crisis or proposal for change: Meech Lake, Charlottetown, the night of the long knives.

So by now most people think: Enough already.

The existing system isn't perfect, but we've been talking about changing the government system for decades and we still don't have an acceptable solution.

	28-08-2002 08:11									#227
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quote: The existing system isn't perfect, but we've been talking about changing the government system for decades and we still don't have an acceptable solution.

And yet blackice feels the need to rail on people who aren't going to put up with a government who is unable to fix itself to be acceptable to the majority of Canadians?

	28-08-2002 08:14									#228
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This government wasn't the one that underwent innumerable constitutional crises and failed at resolving; that was Brian Mulroney's PCs

WE have the responsibility of electing a government that will fix itself if we feel it needs fixing.

	28-08-2002 08:16									#229
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And the problem with this is the majority of the country lives in a single region, and the majority of that region shares the same political opinion and doesn't really care for the true political diversity of the nation.

Which means the people who feel they need a voice too will continue to "whine" about getting their voice, and the majority in charge will keep insisting they shut their traps and deal with it because 30 years ago they sent us a couple million bucks in equalization payments for two years.

	28-08-2002 08:20									#230
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Say what you like, but a direct district representational system at least doesn't inherently discriminate; it sets up no rigid formulas that lose their sense over time.

Writing "political diversity" (read: "favouring certain political minorities") into the electoral system will almost certainly fall into that trap.

	28-08-2002 08:23									#231
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In at least one of the three branches the minorities should be given equal say as the majority, it allows for the protection of that minority while not giving them absolute control. The majority would still dominate the main house, and the minority would only have equal say in the secondary house. Seems fair to me.

	28-08-2002 08:24									#232
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Which minority? Geographic? Remember that "rigid formula" bit?

	28-08-2002 08:26									#233
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And it doesn't seem fair to me. If someone represents 9 million people he should have more say than if someone represents 140 000 people (the honourable sen's from Ont. and PEI?)

	28-08-2002 08:27									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Which minority? Geographic? Remember that "rigid formula" bit?

Perhaps it could go by "major" party then.

quote: And it doesn't seem fair to me. If someone represents 9 million people he should have more say than if someone represents 140 000 people (the honourable sen's from Ont. and PEI?)

Don't you also think it's not exactly fair to have an entire region's opinion consistently tossed to the side and disregarded for decades on end? You don't think that in order of Canada, as a whole, to be happy, some concessions should be made to ensure Canada stays happy, and not just strictly Ontario and Quebec?

	28-08-2002 08:34									#235
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quote: Blackice, this should be fairly obvious to you, but Alberta's government can't do a damn thing about federal policies once they implement **** like Kyoto and have high progressive federal income taxes.

Niether can Ontario, Manitoba, PEI, etc etc etc oh listen...Nope I here no whinning anywhere else. Welcome to a Dictatorial Democracy. You have the right to vote The End....

quote: Um, just what do equalization payments do for a modern day Alberta?

Nothing you don't need it duh! What does it do for Ontario?

quote: Alberta's opinions and votes are marginalized since it's a minority which consistently votes conservative.

And?

quote: The federal government doesn't have to, and doesn't, give a damn what Canadians living in Alberta think simply because it doesn't matter.

Does'nt give a *hit what Ontario thinks either, or PEI or Manitoba, etc etc etc...

quote: Make no mistake about that.

I make no mistake, I believe when the money makers want to make money they will.
The Auto industry is dying here. It will be in India before long, cheaper labor. So this crap about industry like they give a *uck about the people anyway. 10,000 people or more and my kid and her kids will breath easier. That I give a *uck about, you it's greed me it's people's lives. We disagree here big time.

quote: Can you provide a link to that study you've mentioned numerous times without warrant?

In the papers here daily look it up, without warrant...
I do not give a rats ass about 2% I do care about 10,000 people. You dismiss this with the wave of your moronic hand. I truely hope you never get any power over people.

quote: blame Ontario

Because he picked Alberta to pick your ass, it worked way to well.

quote: Stage protests?

Why not it worked for the NEP...

quote: There is no shortage of demand for Alberta

Very Canadian first Asher

quote: Do you know what the definition of hypocrisy is?

Yes 90% of your whining as stated.

hy·poc·ri·sy
hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
An act or instance of such falseness.

quote: I do pay for my university. I would move south and go to school, but I'd have to pay many times the tuition simply because I'm an out of state student at the public universities. I didn't chose to live up here when I graduated high school, that's just how the cards fell, so I'm going to a public university here to save me thousands of dollars.

Yup better place for sure. So Canada has no such "out of state" or for that matter "out of country pay more clause". So feel free to use our publically paid education system to take your skills out of the country. Then pad the coffers of a foriegn country as graditure for our lack of "out of state charges".

quote: I could get the same damn thing south of the border

See above you make no sense.

quote: Not my choice.

Not my choice tells me Daddy has the purse strings. How old are your anyway?
What you are saying is you have a comfortable house to live in. Bills paid, do not have to work do groceries, etc etc...Now tell me do you have a free education? Your a young guy how did YOU find the cash to go to UNI.?

quote: Not my choice.

I made it very clear in that thread what I meant. You are simply pulling that Asher "I know what you mean but refuse to accept it" act.

quote: politically backwards when electing federal governments is all

Really, ok Asher you have a handle on gobal investments etc in relation to a countries economy. Where would Canada be today had Doris been elected and the same fiasco took place. Which it would have. What somewhere between a third world country and a fourth. Give it a break Asher you are way more intellegent for this tripe.

quote: I'm only half Canadian,

Yes you keep repeating that...Niether is Ontario, PEI, Manitoba, etc etc etc... Maybe we all should move. I know many half Canadians that not only appreciate what they have here but will contribute back to it, the country. They do not have such a narrow, shallow view of things. They are Albertan and could give a rats ass what the feds do. Why? Because they have wealth and power in Alberta and not one *ucking thing the feds do effects them. They love the country, the people, the life, the air quality and thier freedom.
I guess you missed that part.

ap·pre·ci·ate Pronunciation Key (-prsh-t)
v. ap·pre·ci·at·ed, ap·pre·ci·at·ing, ap·pre·ci·ates
v. tr.
To recognize the quality, significance, or magnitude of: appreciated their freedom.
To be fully aware of or sensitive to; realize: I appreciate your problems.
To be thankful or show gratitude for: I really appreciate your help.
To admire greatly; value.
To raise in value or price, especially over time.

quote: don't you think

Nope but I am not a spoiled kid living of daddy either.

quote: Shameful

Yes you are I think canada will be way better of without the likes of you. Some of have the will to change things. Some of us just whine about it. Some of us just run from it. You are the last two. I have two constitutional challenges going to change things. YOU WHINER what are YOU doing to change things.

quote: unity?

You know the thing the majority of Canada has made it clear it wants

quote: How long and where have you lived in the US, blackice

6 months In NY state.

quote: leave Canada

Don't be a moron.

quote: Canada isn't for everyone,

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Hey why not leave now? Right daddy's purse strings, out of state cost's etc etc etc.

quote: Deal with that and love me anyway

Ok marrage and steady dating are out But your ok,

	28-08-2002 08:40									#236
	Remove this text

blackice, I'd like to think you're such an unbelievable moron that even the lefties would be very much ashamed of your "contribution" to this thread.

You've also taken a lot of my non-serious comments as serious. I guess the smilies didn't give it away. Most people are more observant about that kind of thing, but I'm guessing it takes all that concentration already just to get a half-way coherent sentence out of you. It's also pretty amazing you apparently have no concept of how much it costs to go to a state college with out-of-state costs and the rationale behind attending the local college to save thousands of dollars for an equivalent education.

I could respond to that last post, since just about everything you've said is wrong or a troll, but you're starting to bore me now. At first you were amusing, then pathetically amusing, and now it's just pathetic.

So let's just get this out of my way. I'm a bad murderous person who wants to kill 10,000 people a year in Ontario, I'm a bad Canadian, I'm an inexperienced yokel with no life concepts at all while you are a shining example of humanity, and I'm a retard that just doesn't know anything.

Now that we're in full agreement, I hope you enjoy your stay in Canada while I enjoy my stay in California, where I'm surrounded by other idiot non-Canadians who also want to kill 10,000 people in Ontario.

	28-08-2002 08:48									#237
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So much garbage to respond to:

quote: Originally posted by Asher Canada would have survived perfectly fine without it and you know it.

Hardly, as Blackice has mentioned, massive oil price hikes sent a shock through the global economy creating a worldwide recession. Canada was already trapped in stagflation. Interest rates hit 20 per cent, as an article posted by NYE mentioned.

Even without NEP, there would have been massive layoffs in the Alberta oil industry. A lot of people laid off, IIRC, were on the drilling and exploration side. This is a business that does work now for future gains. Nominal interest rates of 20 per cent created a massive cost for such work that made it unprofitable to do at the time.

Ironically, NEP may have helped Alberta in the long-run by creating short-term pain. Albertans work up to the dangers of relying too much on the oil industry and have since made some efforts to diversify their economy (as you so often tell us).

quote: Originally posted by Asher All of that in the world can't compete with the federal government subtly discouraging foreign investment in the oil industry by even threatening to sign Kyoto, or by their complete disregard for the opinions of Albertans federally.

Everytime any government creates new pollution control laws, the businesses start crying about the sky is going to fall and the economy will collapse. Funny thing is, this never happens.

The auto industry complained left, right and centre when governments started making stricter safety and environmental laws for vehicles. These laws actually forced the auto industry to upgrade their equipment and as a result, the industry is more efficient and competitive.

quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm one of those people who believe democracy should be about rule of the majority while respecting the rights of the minority. This doesn't happen in Canada, and I don't see why I should put up with it.

Bullocks, there are numerous protections for the minority in the Canadian government system. There have been from day one. Confederation split powers between provinces and the federal government to protect the interests of people within a given province.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Besides, I'd be a bad American if I stayed in Canada...

No, you would be a smart American.

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's just that Kyoto doesn't solve the problem.

No one says that the agreement is a miracle cure. It is simply a step in the right direction.

quote: Originally posted by Asher You do know that countries like China, who use some of the most inefficient factories and pollute A LOT and are developing so they pollute more faster than any other country

That's not true. According to a 1997 UN report, pollution levels have remained constant between 1980 and 1995 (a period of massive economic growth).

The reason for this is that as China develops, it starts to use more efficient means of production that pollute less than the old technology.

For example, instead of people using coal to fuel stoves, more and more are using cleaner natural gas.

On the downside, economic development can create more pollution, such as the pollution created as more and more cars and trucks are used.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Countries like the United States has refused to sign it because it would substantially hurt the American economy...

No the American government doesn't want to sign it because:
a) The Republicans don't want anything to do with international treaties that they cannot control; and
b) The greed factor. Anything that might affect the massive profits earned by the rich is immediate rejected by the Republicans, even if it creates long-term public gain.

quote: Originally posted by Asher What I find particularly amusing is Tingkai actually blamed the West for NOT WHINING when the Liberal PM grossly abused his powers, then turning around and *****ing about how the West whines about how the current system isn't right.

My god, you missed the whole point. In 1972, no one said anything when Quebec got screwed, but in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000, far too many Albertans complain that they're being screwed as if they're the only ones who have ever got a raw deal from the government.

More on this later.

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's not shallow, it's realistic. The fact is, there's a better job market south for my field than anywhere else in Canada. The fact is, I'll get paid more and pay less taxes down there. The fact is, I'll have a federal government which more or less supports my views.

Actually, what you wrote is pretty shallow. Most people love their country for more than just how much money they can make.

I could understand it if you left Canada to explore the world, or reluctantly, but you seem to be going because of hatred towards Canadians.

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's another problem Canada has called the brain drain, but the Liberals will sit there and tell you it's all a lie as well.

And they would be right. For every person who leaves Canada to work someplace else, another person moves to Canada to seek new opportunities.

	28-08-2002 08:53									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Don't you also think it's not exactly fair to have an entire region's opinion consistently tossed to the side and disregarded for decades on end? You don't think that in order of Canada, as a whole, to be happy, some concessions should be made to ensure Canada stays happy, and not just strictly Ontario and Quebec?

Read up on your history. The 1982 constitution contains a massive concession to Alberta. It was the Alberta PC government who wanted the Notwithstanding clause, and the evil Trudeau, the man who never listened to the west, (along with all the other premiers, except Quebec) agreed to include this clause that was designed to protect the interests of minorities.

	28-08-2002 08:55									#239
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Asher in other words THE END... Your arguement has pasted it's time, it's old news. You have no response to the reality of fact and once again you conceed the frail, hopeless stituation of your dictatorial diatribe.

Welcome to the real world, I hope some sunk in....

NEXT>>>>

All good points Taki, I see you know you Country, politics well

	28-08-2002 08:56									#240
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Damm, there's a lot more that I would like to comment on, but I'm really busy today.

So I'll just say: Asher you're a young geek and you don't no what you're talking about. (Just kidding).