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Coracle
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quote:
Originally posted by Palaiologos
I admit i am new to Apolyton(less than a month) and therefore i know little about the people who frequently post and chat here.I have only expressed my own views.
However, i find culture fliping socialy impossible. People who stand in awe of another people's culture perhaps adopt the other's way of life but they never surrender the political control of their cities to them.
The Romans being in contact with the Greek colonies of Magna Grecia admited the superiority of the Greek culture and adopted their way of life.All Roman artwork is copied from Greek equivelants.This however, did not mean the Romans wanted to give the Greeks political control of their territory.It happened the other way around.
All i say that a conquered nation in civ3 should behave just as that.As a conquered nation.And that means it would occasionaly rise up in revolt.
If one of you gives me one example in history ,just one,
where a city out of admiration of another nation's culture decided to surrender the POLITICAL CONTROL of its society to another, i will take it all back and admit i am mistaken. |
You are NOT mistaken, You are wise.
Also note that the Culture Flipping model depends on the assumptions that there have been national cultures throughout history. This is false! Only in the past several hundred years (with some exceptions) has national cultures become a dominant factor. So Firaxis got that wrong too.
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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
Originally posted by Palaiologos
History is full of revolutions of nations long conquered against their rulers.Egypt although destroyed as a state rebelled numerous times against Persian rule.During the 19th century the ottoman empire was fragmented by the rebellions of its balkan subjects.Some of this rebellions were succesful and destroyed nations resurged.Such was the case with Greece in 1821, after 400 years of turkish rule, and modern day Kurds.
Why not in Civ3?.Civilizations conquered have no chance of ever reappearing on the scene.Since national identity is implemented in the game, it would be logical that the oppressed nations would one day rebel.
I propose that when culturally inferior civilizations conquer a culturally superior civilization, the conquered civ would have a chance of rebelling against its occupants even if all of their cities are occupied.It would depent of course on the size of its cities ,the troops garrisoned and periods of general unrest in the empire.
The assimilation procedure should take much longer. |
That would annoy me severly...
I bairly win a war against America and finally take some city when suddenly....They all revolt! It may be historically accurate but would be annoying in a game.
However, I would like to see Civil war come back from civ2...It would make capitals something far more important than they are now.
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Palaiologos
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Constantinople, Queen of Cities
Aug 2002
time: 05:21
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quote:
What you have described here is called in civ3's terms: "culture flipping" (the Hungarians flipped back to the western European culture, etc). Only it is not possible with civs that were totally destroyed/conquered. This could be an interesting addition. Maybe it could happen to civs that have a very high rate of corruption, low culture, unhappiness, or somebody conquers their capitol, etc. (there must be a trigger to activate such a rebellion) |
Indeed.When a capitol falls unrest should spread throughout the Empire, and foreigners could see this as chance to break their bonds.Perhaps when a civ is at war with an enemy culturally linked with its conquered peoples(France is at war with Rome, some Greek cities under French control view the Romans as liberators instead of just another tyrants),occupied cities would revolt and the populace fights it out with the garisson.
Low culture and corruption should certainly be another factor, just remember how quickly the Mongol Empire collapsed.Actually the Mongols were assimilated into the very cultures they conquered.
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Tiberius
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Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:21
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It doesn't matter what was the trigger. Civ3 has several triggers, too. Low culture, anarchy, corruption and unhappiness increases the chance of a flip, while WLTKdays, miltary units and high culture decreases it. The city flips when a sum of these conditons is met. So was in East Germany in 1989.
In 1956 Hungary flipped too and the Sovjet Union wasn't in anarchy back then. It's another question that they reoccupied it. You can do this, too, in Civ3.
quote:
P.S You didn't really believe i would admit a mistake,did you? |
No, I didn't 
quote:
How do you guys have your quotes write underneath "originally posted by x " |
When you answer to a post there are above it several links, including one called "quote" (near "edit"). Click that when you answer and "originally posted by x" will automatically appear.
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Fighter
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Vancouver, BC
Aug 2002
time: 21:21
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Warsaw near the end of WW2, as the Sov's advanced rose up and actualy took back the city, for all intents and purposes, this was Poland (a dead civ) rising up again, or a culture flip to Russia, whichever your view holds.
(Its another question entirely that the Sov's refused to help them because they werent Communists and subsequently the Germans marched in and brutaly quelled the rebellion, all of which actualy happens in Civ3, the Ruskies just refused to take the city)
As an example of a culture flip that actualy happened:
Newfoundland, late 1940's. The province had a referendum, on it were three choices, 1, join USA, 2, Join Canada, 3, become Independent of britian. Of course, Canadian culture prevailed over Yankee culture and we now have the province of Newfoundland as part of our nation.
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AlecTrevylan00
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quote:
Originally posted by Palaiologos
That was triggered by the general colapse of the
Soviet Union and the ensuing anarchy( In civ3 terms the Soviets changed their goverment from communism to democracy, or perhaps republic?, and were experiencing a period of anarchy in which opressed peoples saw a chance to revolt.)
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Um, the soviet union didnt change governments till 1991, the berlin wall fell in 89. So....
Eastern europe didnt break its bond because the SU fell, the SU fell because eastern europe broke its bonds
(well, i am REALLY over symplyfying in that last paragraph. The SU fell due to many, many conditions, i just dont want to bore you with a 256 russian history (and thats just 1980-1991 ie. Gorbachev) )
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23-08-2002 21:19
Coracle? 
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