25-08-2002 12:46									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Imran, yet, conservatives are the ones who advocate preserving the anachronistic sodomy laws.

MrFun. Neither conservative nor right-wing implies society should ignore crimes. For instance, murder.

The problem comes when you attempt to expand 'crimes' beyond the basics that we have all agreed on for millenia.

Just because some religious groups encourage 'conservative' politicians to oppose all things gay, does not mean all right wingers share those views.

Just as the fact that some on the left encourag[ing] the lining up of the upper classes against the wall does not define all left wingers.

	25-08-2002 20:32									#62
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quote: Imran, what would the difference be between a conservative and a right wing??

Um... plenty. That is like saying what is the difference between a socialist and a left wing! Just because one is part of another doesn't mean that the other is the part of the other.

	25-08-2002 20:46									#63
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither MrFun. Neither conservative nor right-wing implies society should ignore crimes. For instance, murder. The problem comes when you attempt to expand 'crimes' beyond the basics that we have all agreed on for millenia. Just because some religious groups encourage 'conservative' politicians to oppose all things gay, does not mean all right wingers share those views. Just as the fact that some on the left encourag[ing] the lining up of the upper classes against the wall does not define all left wingers.

Then explain to me why conservatives have failed to repeal the sodomy laws if this is only advocated by only the extreme right-wingers.

And I need to start qualifying my statements with "some" or "many" conservatives. You're assuming that I mean to apply my statements to all conservatives, when that is not my intention.

And Imran, I think I understand what you're saying.

	25-08-2002 20:50									#64
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Mr Fun, for example, I don't think you could call Colin Powell a conservative. But he is on the right wing. Conservatives are one portion of the right wing.

	25-08-2002 21:09									#65
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You're joking right??

I have never heard of a liberal who is a Republican.
Can you explain to me how Powell can be a liberal and a Republican at the same time??

I mean, if you say that he cannot be called a conservative, then you're saying that he is a liberal, and follows the Republican party.

And what liberals belong to the right wing??

	25-08-2002 21:27									#66
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I have never heard of a liberal who is a Republican.

Then you weren't in Massachusetts in the '60s and '70s. One of that state's senators during that time was a liberal Republican named Ed Brooke.

	25-08-2002 21:32									#67
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You're joking right?? I have never heard of a liberal who is a Republican. Can you explain to me how Powell can be a liberal and a Republican at the same time?? I mean, if you say that he cannot be called a conservative, then you're saying that he is a liberal, and follows the Republican party. And what liberals belong to the right wing??

Actually, to be fair the UK Conservative Party does include right-liberals (those who prefer a minimalist state in all areas (it's just a shame the right-authoritarian crack-pots are in charge).

	25-08-2002 21:38									#68
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The Tory party will official fracture when the Euro campaign begins in earnest, don't worry.

A benefit of crackpots being in charge is that the Tories will never get back into power. A disadvantage is that we are doomed to a one party state.

	25-08-2002 21:41									#69
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Unfortunately the one-arty state is merely the lesser of two evils

Oh, call me slow but I just got your flag

	25-08-2002 21:43									#70
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Slow.

	25-08-2002 22:01									#71
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Imran, yet, conservatives are the ones who advocate preserving the anachronistic sodomy laws.

Maybe that's because Sodomy is unnatural.


:: ducks and Runs ::

	25-08-2002 22:14									#72
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Well I'm certaintly not right wing and will propably not convert even if faced with threats of castration. But from my experience I can tell you why some people support it. They fall into two categories. _The ones who actually believe that it is the best political system for society. These are just the poor deluded sods who can be saved. _The ones who are rich and without conscience. These are the conscious and self serving supporters of the right wing (which represents the power of conservatism - the sustainment of the present order which benefits them in the expence of other's people's lives) and there is no saving for them. These are to be beheaded. That's all

The former are often brainwashed by the latter.

Other than that, yer right on paiktis.

	25-08-2002 22:27									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The former are often brainwashed by the latter. Other than that, yer right on paiktis.

I better get my boots on....the B.S. is getting pretty deep in here.

	25-08-2002 22:27									#74
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Well I believe that right wing economics do make the most wealth for society. I think that left social policies are the only way to prevent rich-poor divides.

Any government that mixes right wing economics with centrist/left social aims in a coherent fashion will probably win my vote. The trick is to get the two objectives to tie in with each other.

	25-08-2002 22:32									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Maybe that's because Sodomy is unnatural. :: ducks and Runs ::

It's so nice to watch amateurs take a shot at trolling.

	25-08-2002 22:40									#76
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Imran's got a point MrFun left and right include a lot more than just contemporary conceptions of "conservative" and "liberal" (expecially when you consider the idiocy of calling US adulterated social democracy liberalism) on the right wing side you've got everyone from libertarianism (which would never support sodomy laws) to fascism and on the left you've got us who are anarchistish who while damn left don't even remotely resemble the social democracy that most people associate with leftism and then there's "liberals" like Lieberman who aren't exactly friends of civil liberties.

	26-08-2002 03:18									#77
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Interesting points, Boshko.

	26-08-2002 03:25									#78
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I am mostly in the middle, not much left or right

but the reason im at all close to the right is because i believe highly that everyone should pull their own weight, and if they dont, there should be consequences.

With a more right, capitalist view than not, i believe that if someone isnt working as hard as the man next to him, then he does not deserve the benefits the man next to him is getting.

However, ya, i have a left view as well. i dont think the boss should be outwaging the workers neccesarily. i think things like medicare are great for society (woo canada!).

i see the benefits of left and right policy, but i like right-winged ideas because they put alot more thought towards the individual, which i like.

	26-08-2002 04:44									#79
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quote: I mean, if you say that he cannot be called a conservative, then you're saying that he is a liberal, and follows the Republican party.

You are a college student? The right wing doesn't consist of solely of conservatives, just as the left wing doesn't consist only of socialists. Sometimes I REALLY wish we in the US taught more political science.

	26-08-2002 04:46									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I mean, if you say that he cannot be called a conservative, then you're saying that he is a liberal, and follows the Republican party. You are a college student? The right wing doesn't consist of solely of conservatives, just as the left wing doesn't consist only of socialists. Sometimes I REALLY wish we in the US taught more political science.

It is surprising how often right liberals and left authoritarians are overlooked.

	26-08-2002 04:53									#81
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Well, Stalin isn't overlooked too much .

But right liberals, yeah, I agree.

	26-08-2002 11:24									#82
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I'm certainly right wing. I think the government should stay out of a lot of things it's currently involved in, but I also think the government needs to be involved with lots of other things (I'm actually in favor of public education, and even health care*)

And I think it should be obvious I whole heartedly support gay rights and the like.

_{* either properly run with enough funding or allow people to opt out and use private as well}

	26-08-2002 19:29									#83
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Poly Right Liberals -

Asher
Cockney
Dan Severn
DinoDoc

	26-08-2002 19:42									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant This is a thread dedicated to all you right wingers out there and the question is 'Why?' Im not talking about "Why dont you support communism/socialism" or anything like that, I am simply asking what makes you support the side that seems (to me) to not give a damn about the collective good, whether it benefits everyone or not Firstly, PLEASE can this not turn into a left/right debate on a specific issues and secondly, this is NOT a flame against right wingers - I am simply asking what motivates your unexplainable (to me) support of individualism above all else Note: Please do not let this thread descend into arguments that not supporting individualism is tantamount to communism - there's a happy medium...just look at Europe (thats NOT to say I want this to be a Europe vs US thread)

I realise that people will never truly act for the common good of a group.

I therefore believe that right-wing policies are more realistic than pie-in-the-sky lefty ideas of everyone helping everyone else.

It just isn't going to happen, and we're best making policies on that assumption.

	26-08-2002 19:47									#85
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun It's so nice to watch amateurs take a shot at trolling.

With a name like Lonestar, he's got to be from Texas. People from TX deserve a troll handicap or something.

	26-08-2002 19:50									#86
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Hey Zulu, if you still look at this thread, are you still in touch with Chris?

	26-08-2002 20:10									#87
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Bodders, take the political compass test and post your score so I can map you

(See the political thread).

	26-08-2002 20:14									#88
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Map me?

	26-08-2002 20:48									#89
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Yeah, I've made a political compass map of Poly posters.

	26-08-2002 20:51									#90
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What's its orientation?