24-08-2002 05:19									#1
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This is a thread dedicated to all you right wingers out there and the question is 'Why?'

Im not talking about "Why dont you support communism/socialism" or anything like that, I am simply asking what makes you support the side that seems (to me) to not give a damn about the collective good, whether it benefits everyone or not

Firstly, PLEASE can this not turn into a left/right debate on a specific issues and secondly, this is NOT a flame against right wingers - I am simply asking what motivates your unexplainable (to me) support of individualism above all else

Note: Please do not let this thread descend into arguments that not supporting individualism is tantamount to communism - there's a happy medium...just look at Europe (thats NOT to say I want this to be a Europe vs US thread)

	24-08-2002 05:28									#2
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I believe people are more motivated without govenment to help them in every aspect in their lives. I also believe that large govenment creates inefficency. I am anti-abortion. I also have extreme left views but no party in the US is currently supporting them so there I might as well support the right.

I don't care about how it doesn't seem to give a damn about the collect good because it the public good is better under the right compared to the left.

Those are the basic reasons.

	24-08-2002 05:35									#3
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I believe large government is moronic and stifles advancements. This is demostrated by the inadequate nature of the Soviet economy. I am against abortion (sorry I did misread his post). I am for the death penalty in most instances when it is applied properly. I like Ronald Reagan. So those are my reasons... you really want more of those reasons?

I wouldn't support communism/socialism not because I don't understand it but because it in my mind is not logical.

I am against arbitrary environmental treaties like Kyoto which are fatally flawed and like people actually have to prove global warming.

I believe my economic policies would help everyone in the end and not in the short-term. Communism/socialism is very short-sighted.

Please I don't want to get into a debate... I am tired...

Last edited by Giancarlo on 24-08-2002 at 05:57

	24-08-2002 05:42									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I believe large government is moronic and stifles advancements. This is demostrated by the inadequate nature of the Soviet economy. I am against abortion like Apocalypse. I am for the death penalty in most instances when it is applied properly. I like Ronald Reagan. So those are my reasons... you really want more of those reasons? I wouldn't support communism/socialism not because I don't understand it but because it in my mind is not logical. I am against arbitrary environmental treaties like Kyoto which are fatally flawed and like people actually prove global warming. I believe my economic policies would help everyone in the end and not in the short-term. Communism/socialism is very short-sighted. Please I don't want to get into a debate... I am tired...

This is something I never get - the right say they don't want a big government, yet they think the government should be able to say what people should do with their own bodies?

	24-08-2002 05:46									#5
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Asher has forced me to point out that this applies to right-authoritarians, not right-liberals.







Right liberals are just treacherous scum who don't belong to any side

	24-08-2002 05:49									#6
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon This is something I never get - the right say they don't want a big government, yet they think the government should be able to say what people should do with their own bodies?

THIS IS NOT A DEBATE, ZE WAS ASKING A QUESTION. Don't interfere with this.

I don't care what people do with their bodies as long as it ain't affecting me. And I am probably one of the most right authoritarian people on this forum.... so please don't say that.

	24-08-2002 05:54									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Fez THIS IS NOT A DEBATE, ZE WAS ASKING A QUESTION. Don't interfere with this. I don't care what people do with their bodies as long as it ain't affecting me. And I am probably one of the most right authoritarian people on this forum.... so please don't say that.

You just said you're anti-abortion!

Oops, I'm sorry I forgot dissenting views aren't allowed...

	24-08-2002 05:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon You just said you're anti-abortion!

And that was a typo, anti-pro choice was what I meant to type. I am against murder. And I misred his post... so that was my fault. Don't criticize every little typo I make.

quote: Oops, I'm sorry I forgot dissenting views aren't allowed...

He said:

Firstly, PLEASE can this not turn into a left/right debate on a specific issues and secondly, this is NOT a flame against right wingers - I am simply asking what motivates your unexplainable (to me) support of individualism above all else

	24-08-2002 05:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Fez And that was a typo, anti-pro choice was I meant to type. I am against murder.

LOL! Anti-abortion IS anti-pro choice.

	24-08-2002 05:59									#10
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon LOL! Anti-abortion IS anti-pro choice.

I am tired...... don't attack me for this now.... I didn't read his post closely enough.

	24-08-2002 06:01									#11
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At least I give my tropicans elections every 3 or 4 years

	24-08-2002 06:01									#12
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The main thing that I dont understnad about the right is that they see interference in the economy as the worst thing imaginable but they see interference in what people do with their own bodies, such as abortion and gay rights (which i see as much more important) as very bad indeed.

Fez and others - As I said before...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!! This is NOT! about communism or socialism and any reference to them is to miss the entire point of this thread - the alternative to not supporting the right, whether it be the far right or centre right is NOT communism or socialism

	24-08-2002 06:02									#13
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon At least I give my tropicans elections every 3 or 4 years

I don't ever and I keep martial law up running the entire time.

	24-08-2002 06:03									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I don't ever and I keep martial law up running the entire time.

Which pretty much says everything

	24-08-2002 06:12									#15
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Which pretty much says everything

Bah. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Democracy doesn't work. Didn't you see Attack of the Clones?

	24-08-2002 06:12									#16
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon This is something I never get - the right say they don't want a big government, yet they think the government should be able to say what people should do with their own bodies?

These Zygotes don't get to choose what happens to their bodies.

Any you don't see the right trying to leavy large taxes on things like fast food. The left is far more controlling of what people do to their bodies.

	24-08-2002 06:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse These Zygotes don't get to choose what happens to their bodies. Any you don't see the right trying to leavy large taxes on things like fast food. The left is far more controlling of what people do to their bodies.

So the right doesn't tell you who you can have sex with? When you should have a child? If you should take marijuana in the comfort of your own home?

	24-08-2002 06:18									#18
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I don't know if I am a full fledged right winger or not. I do believe in encouraging the community as a whole as well as supporting individual rights. I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive.

	24-08-2002 06:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon So the right doesn't tell you who you can have sex with? When you should have a child? If you should take marijuana in the comfort of your own home?

I didn't say the right never infringes, just the left does more. You are right on the sex thing. I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about when you mention the child thing, since both the right and left like to restrict access to children but in different ways. Both the Republicans and the Democrats still want marijuana illegal while the extremist Green and Libertarian parties want it legal.

	24-08-2002 06:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse I didn't say the right never infringes, just the left does more. You are right on the sex thing. I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about when you mention the child thing, since both the right and left like to restrict access to children but in different ways. Both the Republicans and the Democrats still want marijuana illegal while the extremist Green and Libertarian parties want it legal.

To me the Democrats are on the right

I don't think major life decisions like sexuality and abortion compare to how much you pay for fast food though

	24-08-2002 06:29									#21
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon To me the Democrats are on the right I don't think major life decisions like sexuality and abortion compare to how much you pay for fast food though

That is because you are a British person. They are left in America. The Libertarians are right in America. Either way that doesn't work well. If you want to call Democrats right then we can also throw out any abortion argument.

Again, abortion is really only giving one of the people involved a choice. I'm not Christian or anything, just Buddhist. Give people a chance.

The whole limitation on sex is overrated. The only laws that are regularly enforced are about things like pedophilia and even those are enforced all the time.

Now on fast food and alcohol, those things are pretty heavily targetted by the left.

	24-08-2002 06:30									#22
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Damn
Looks like Im going to have to moderate this thread to keep it on the question I was interested in

DONT let this descend into Democrats vs. Republicans
They are NOT an accurate model of the left/right debate. Just because they both think pot should be illegal doesnt mean that both the left and the right as a whole think it should be illegal.
Issues like that are nothing to do with with left vs/ right
AND lets NOT debate that and get off the subject

	24-08-2002 06:32									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant Damn Looks like Im going to have to moderate this thread to keep it on the question I was interested in DONT let this descend into Democrats vs. Republicans They are NOT an accurate model of the left/right debate. Just because they both think pot should be illegal doesnt mean that both the left and the right as a whole think it should be illegal. Issues like that are nothing to do with with left vs/ right AND lets NOT debate that and get off the subject

This is Apolyton - there's no way it can't turn into a debate/screeching session

	24-08-2002 06:34									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant DONT let this descend into Democrats vs. Republicans

I am not trying to do Dems v. Reps. When I first mentioned them I grouped them together in a stance on one issue.

	24-08-2002 06:35									#25
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Jon, the truth is that the authoritarian-left is just as large as the authoritarian-right. If you don't believe me, try walking into your local Working Men's Club in a pink shirt and announcing your sexuality.

	24-08-2002 06:36									#26
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Well I'm certaintly not right wing and will propably not convert even if faced with threats of castration.

But from my experience I can tell you why some people support it. They fall into two categories.

_The ones who actually believe that it is the best political system for society. These are just the poor deluded sods who can be saved.

_The ones who are rich and without conscience. These are the conscious and self serving supporters of the right wing (which represents the power of conservatism - the sustainment of the present order which benefits them in the expence of other's people's lives) and there is no saving for them. These are to be beheaded.


That's all

	24-08-2002 06:43									#27
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 _The ones who are rich and without conscience. These are the conscious and self serving supporters of the right wing (which represents the power of conservatism - the sustainment of the present order which benefits them in the expence of other's people's lives) and there is no saving for them. These are to be beheaded.

There are many on the left without conciouses too. You make it seem like it is only the right with these types of people. The rich have given lots and lots of money to left candidates when looking out for their own interests. The left supported light rail in Houston is also a good example of the rich left using public money for their own gain.

	24-08-2002 06:55									#28
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Lets just except that paiktis's post was trolling and STAY ON TOPIC

The "more efficient than the left" argument is still the only decent one I've heard - Although even that is offset by the fact that the left's investment in education may well increase efficiency and the left's increased social security may allow people to take more risks with the decisions in their jobs (no risk - no gain)

	24-08-2002 07:03									#29
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Have you heard how much money is missing from the Department of Education though? Education is one of only two major issues I agree with the left one though, but I am pretty extreme left in my views on this topic. So much so that the Dems and Republicans are basically the same in position.

The left isn't handling Social Security very efficiently. SS shouldn't be taxed. Taxing taxes is silly.

	24-08-2002 07:06									#30
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I'll try to answer: I'm leaning Right because I'm scared of the Government and I want to contain it. I'm also scared of a static private sector: big corporations which won't eventually go down and, small ones which don't aspire to grow. I'll fight lethargy.

As for personal or moral issues I'm rather libertine. That said, I'm not overly fond of (Right) Libertarians and, I still sympathize with various Leftist ideas so I'm prolly not all that representative.

Cheers,