24-08-2002 17:40									#1
	Should Persia be called Iran? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Someone said that Iran is a more historically correct name for Persia.

Are Iranians and Persians the same people, or do they just happen to come from the same territory?

	24-08-2002 21:09									#2
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Persia was renamed to Iran in the 1930s.

This was to do with Persia being a "Western" name, Iran being a colloquial name, or something like that.

Same people etc..

	24-08-2002 22:05									#3
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no. thats like calling rome italy, babylonians iraqis, and zulus south africa

	24-08-2002 22:54									#4
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The Persians is not the same as the Iranians.

	25-08-2002 01:49									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Persia was renamed to Iran in the 1930s. This was to do with Persia being a "Western" name, Iran being a colloquial name, or something like that. Same people etc..

Our word "Persia" derives from the Old Persian "Parsa." Etymologically related is the name of their language: Farsi, which belongs to the Indo-European language family.

Interestingly, the word "Iran" is related to the word "Aryan."

For Civ purposes, Persia seems like the better choice.

	25-08-2002 01:56									#6
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We've always known them as Persians, Iran is a 20th century name. Because Civ is all about history, Persia is the proper name.

	25-08-2002 23:39									#7
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quote: Should Persia be called Iran?

no

	26-08-2002 14:01									#8
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While I believe that there aren't enough modern civilizations to choose from, I still prefer to call the Persian people Persians rather than Iranians.

	27-08-2002 00:20									#9
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal While I believe that there aren't enough modern civilizations to choose from, I still prefer to call the Persian people Persians rather than Iranians.

I think that most people refer to them as Persians and also the language as Persian, though in the last year more people are referring to it as Farsi.

	30-08-2002 06:53									#10
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Iran is a modern name for the nation... It conjures up different images than Persia...

Persia was a far greater nation.

Even if someone makes a case for which is 'correct' the only thing that matters is what people think about when they see the name "persia" or "iran" when people see them, they see 2 distinctly different nations.

	16-09-2002 08:28									#11
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For Persians themselves, there is a continuity from Persia to Iran. Basically, the same country with different periods.

Since the Golden Age came when the country was called Persia, I'd say that Persia is fine.

	16-09-2002 18:40									#12
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You mean like the Vikings and the Norwegians/Swedes/Danes?

A bit off topic:
No people has ever been called "the Vikings". The word "Viking" referred to a person with a certain profession or a lifestyle - a crossover between pirate and merchant.

Are there different values in the names Iran/Persia, like Roma/Gypsy or Inuit/Eskimo?

	21-09-2002 10:04									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Optimizer You mean like the Vikings and the Norwegians/Swedes/Danes? A bit off topic: No people has ever been called "the Vikings". The word "Viking" referred to a person with a certain profession or a lifestyle - a crossover between pirate and merchant. Are there different values in the names Iran/Persia, like Roma/Gypsy or Inuit/Eskimo?

As Germany is to Deutschland, so Persia is to Iran; or a more accurate comparison, as Holland is to the Netherlands (can't remember Dutch for Netherlands- Nederland?) so Persia to Iran. It's Persia to the West, chiefly due to Graeco-Roman writers and historians. Persia derives from the province of Fars, where a great many of the Aryan invaders settled in ancient times, the province that gave it's name to the language they spoke (Farsi), and the followers of the religion of Zoroaster (Parsees). The people who live between the bounds of the Caspian and the 'Persian' Gulf call it Iran- basically an old term for Aryan. The struggle between Semitic Arab origin Islam and Aryan heathen Persia is still remembered by the Marsh Arabs in Iraq.

It hasn't always been Persia either- Parthia, the Seleucid Empire, the Empire of the Sassanids, the Ilkhanate, the lands of the Khwarezm Shah, the Safavid Empire- all occupied an area roughly where Iran/Iraq are today. The constant element has been the Iranians.

	21-09-2002 15:47									#14
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If we call the Persians Iranians, would we have to call the Babylonians Iraqis?

	21-09-2002 16:10									#15
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Or the Romans, Italians?

	23-09-2002 03:27									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf If we call the Persians Iranians, would we have to call the Babylonians Iraqis?

No; as I pointed out, 'iranian' and 'iran' are old terms that were simply brought into 'official' use again in the 20th Century. Given that Italians call Florence 'Firenze' and Venice 'Venezia', I don't see the problem. If people want Viking cities like Dublin and Limerick called by their Old Norse names, and wish to refer to Munchen and not Munich, then surely the same principle applies here.

	24-09-2002 05:09									#17
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But most people don't think of the ancient Persia/Iran when they hear "Iran". And it's the ancient blokes and Xerxes the Persians in Civ3 are supposed to represent.

	24-09-2002 05:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf But most people don't think of the ancient Persia/Iran when they hear "Iran". And it's the ancient blokes and Xerxes the Persians in Civ3 are supposed to represent.

True; but 'most' people, other than those with a taste for military/European history, seemed to think that the 'conquistador' should have been the Spanish U.U., despite the South and Central American and Spanish posters pointing out again and again that the tercio best represented Spanish military might at the height of its achievement.

The point is, surely, 'Persians' don't call 'Persia' 'Persia'. It really is like referring to the United Provinces or the Netherlands as 'Holland' all the time.

	24-09-2002 16:08									#19
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Iran is historicallly more correct. The name the Persians gave to themselves was Iran or something like that. Persian only refers to the language.

	24-09-2002 16:18									#20
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edit: wrong forum

Last edited by MarkG on 24-09-2002 at 17:50

	24-09-2002 17:41									#21
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Who is 'him'?

	24-09-2002 20:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom True; but 'most' people, other than those with a taste for military/European history, seemed to think that the 'conquistador' should have been the Spanish U.U., despite the South and Central American and Spanish posters pointing out again and again that the tercio best represented Spanish military might at the height of its achievement. The point is, surely, 'Persians' don't call 'Persia' 'Persia'. It really is like referring to the United Provinces or the Netherlands as 'Holland' all the time.

While I don't disagree, it is sadly 'most' people that will purchase the game and subsequently 'most' people that Firaxis must cater to, historical inaccuracies aside.

	02-10-2002 03:29									#23
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Yeah, while we're changing "Persia" to "Iran", lets go change "Rome" to "Italy".

	03-10-2002 06:34									#24
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Should Rome be called "Italia" ?

Should Peru/Bolivia/Ecuador be called "Tawantisuyu North/West/South" ?

Shoud be us who asnwers this ?

	03-10-2002 19:54									#25
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Pesia sound more historical and romantic

	09-10-2002 07:49									#26
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Pesia sounds like a urine problem
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quote: Should Peru/Bolivia/Ecuador be called "Tawantisuyu North/West/South"

Probably- but if you just call them the Incas... you can't go wrong there

quote: Should Rome be called "Italia" ?

Heck no- the roman empire was much greater than the Holy Roman Empire AND the Mussolini's Italian empire;' or even Vittorio Emmanuel II's united Italia
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Call the nations what they were known as at their PEAK; not at their present day situation!

	13-10-2002 05:09									#27
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Oh ya we should call Persia Iran because Iran is as powerfull now as Persia was in their time.

	29-10-2002 19:29									#28
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Iran historically correct? Why? Its historically correct for outsiders to call the Empire Persia just like its correct for us to call Germany Germany. The team at Firaxis should consider these changes for the Farsi edition just like I'm sure Germany is Deutchland in the German edition.

	29-10-2002 19:30									#29
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Iwonder if there is a Farsi edition?

	01-11-2002 19:07									#30
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Nuclear master, Persia at their highlight called themselves Iran. That's the whole point of this threat. Rome shouldn't be called Italy, because the Romans throughout the whole empire considered themselves as Romans not as Italians, just as the Persians considered themselves as Iranians.
There is a good case to call the civ Persia, but it is not because they were really called that way. Persia refers to the language and is only later used to refer to the country.
But I would agree to call them Persia in the game. Byzantines considered themselves Romans (not as East Romans or as Byzantines.) The only difference is that West Romans considered themselves as Romani (in latin) and East Romans as Romanoi (in Greek). Surely, there is no one who wants to suggest we should have two civs: the Romani and the Romanoi.