25-08-2002 20:22									#1
	An alliance with England. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

hi folks, it looks like we are in a rough situatuion here with Germany and Persia declaring war against.

For an alliace vs. Germany, England wants our wm, 429 gold, and 2 gpt.

But i have just discovered a new possibility! It may be risky, but we could get a cheap ally.

If we offer England an alliace vs. Greece, they will give us an alliace vs. Germany for no extra charge. Greece is also at war with the Aztecs, so hopefully, they will not be able to devote many of their forces to attacking us.

England is next to Germany, and could be able to releive us of a German offensive. And maybe even take a city or two

The money we save, could be used to upgrade our forces, make a anotehr alliance.....ect.

I dont think Greece could pose much of a threat to us, as they have NO IRON.

I think this plan could save us ALOT of cash, and maybe alot more than that.

discuss!

	25-08-2002 20:36									#2
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That's a good plan IMHO. We have an easy-to-defend border with Greece and most of their forces are too busy up north fighting the Aztecs and the English.
PLUS, for an alliance vs Greece and Germany England is willing to give us 5 gold per turn!

	25-08-2002 23:26									#3
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I say no alliance. Yes it would be nice but I don't want to be comitted for 20 turns and I think it is 20 turns. Also we can handle this threat on our own without deep involvement in a MUCH MUCH worse war now going between greece and england and Aztec. That is one party I want to miss.

	26-08-2002 00:38									#4
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Maybe we should keep some money to buy peace from Germany/Persia in a few turns

	26-08-2002 00:41									#5
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okay'

	26-08-2002 00:47									#6
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I don't think we'll have to pay Persia money for peace. They are not prepared for war at all. Furthermore, they have no iron so our swordsmen can defeat their archers with ease. Then we'll capture their settlers and make them into slaves. Finally, we'll station a swordsman one tile away from Sidon or Tyre and if they still won't surrender, we'll destroy those towns.

	26-08-2002 00:55									#7
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hi ,

, the english are normally not such great "friends" , .....

then again , why not , together with Greece , .....

have a nice day

	26-08-2002 00:57									#8
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If England is already at war, how much are they going to devote to our war?

	26-08-2002 01:03									#9
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NO NO NO
No alliances, we should bloody Persia and Germany's nose a bit and they'll make peace. We need to spend some time building our infrastructure and production capabilites so that we can field and maintain a Military Force in the Middle Ages that is second to none.

We're living on borrowed time by neglecting these issues IMO.

	26-08-2002 01:05									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha If England is already at war, how much are they going to devote to our war?

hi ,

, the AI devotes in most case next to nothing when on the side of the human player , when on the side of the AI , .......

and the english tend to devote next to nothing it comes to pacts , .....

still the exception confirms the rule , ....

and right now we could use all the help we can get , ...

have a nice day

	26-08-2002 01:12									#11
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We don't need any help, Germany and Persia were suprised by this war as much as we were. THEY WERE BRIBED!

Sheesh, people, you see one warrior and think we have to have 20 swordsmen for defense are we've lost the game. Persia isn't going to do much attacking with the units inside our borders because each one is defending a settler. Munich's a sleeply little town that just woke up to a nightmare. All we do is show a little force and Persia and Germany will sign a peace agreement and go back to what they were doing.

	26-08-2002 01:46									#12
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All wars must be ended ASAP. Alliances wont help that. I believe that if we take the two cities I mentioned in my thread (sorry I don't remember their names) from france, we'll be right at the bargaining (er taking) table. Once we are at peace with france, their military alliances will crumble, and Persia and Germany will be pissed at the French, and confused as to why they are fighting us. It may be possible to end the war before we see any new aggression from the Persians and Germans, but I don't think so.

Yes-- take slaves! muhahahaha

	26-08-2002 01:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax All wars must be ended ASAP. Alliances wont help that. I believe that if we take the two cities I mentioned in my thread (sorry I don't remember their names) from france, we'll be right at the bargaining (er taking) table. Once we are at peace with france, their military alliances will crumble, and Persia and Germany will be pissed at the French, and confused as to why they are fighting us. It may be possible to end the war before we see any new aggression from the Persians and Germans, but I don't think so. Yes-- take slaves! muhahahaha

Finally, someone with the common sense to not panic. We ARE NOT in trouble.

America at war with Greece?

Okay, now they'd be in trouble.................

But like Darwin said about the canary that tries to use the cat's mouth as a place to get in from the rain.... those are the creatures that NEED to be taken out of the gene pool.

	26-08-2002 01:56									#14
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I must agree with Farb and Epi: say no to alliences, since they only mean longer wars, and without the building bonus, we can't afford guns and Butter like the A.I. can.

France will surrender soon eneough- they were unprepared. Germany and Persia were both unprepared. For all the tlk of Persia, they are the weaker enemy as long as they lack iron, and they lack iron. If we take Sidon and threaten cities further inland, which we can with the forces we have now (we need to upgrade all our warriors NOW) then Persia will fold.

Germany is a maor threat since they do have rion, and have some huge cities that give them immense building capacities. We need to move troops to these areas and then prepare our counter attac, and at least take Hamburg.

	26-08-2002 02:24									#15
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The only alliance id be interested in is greece vs. germany. We don't need (and dont want) help with france. We dont need help against persia unless they get their iron. A war with germany and greece could be good though, it further stretches greece out and thus keeps them from building culture more, and will distract germany. Also, it keeps greece from being bribed to attack us too, and really they are the only ones that worry me.

An alliance with england against persia is also a bad idea, I think its likely that elizabeth would win that due to her iron, and that would leave us a stronger enemy later.

	26-08-2002 02:32									#16
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quote: Originally posted by wervdon The only alliance id be interested in is greece vs. germany. We don't need (and dont want) help with france. We dont need help against persia unless they get their iron. A war with germany and greece could be good though, it further stretches greece out and thus keeps them from building culture more, and will distract germany. Also, it keeps greece from being bribed to attack us too, and really they are the only ones that worry me. An alliance with england against persia is also a bad idea, I think its likely that elizabeth would win that due to her iron, and that would leave us a stronger enemy later.

I agree with your assessment, but I don't know that I'd be comfortable with Greek forces crossing through our area of influence on their way to Germania.

Also, I see Greece as the next most probable target as they have several cities in our beloved (why? I don't know it's hot, sweaty, and the animals really annoy me) jungle. I envision us eventually trying to consolidate the Grand Basin and that will bring us into conflict with the Greeks.

They are also our primary competition for the Valley of Smelly Things that America posesses.

	26-08-2002 02:42									#17
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I too feel our situation is not serious enogh to warrant an entangling alliance with other civs. We don't want the Americans drawn into war, and I would expect only minimal help from the English. We should be able to finish off the French, and stave off the Persians, relatively easily. And very possible, weather the Germans, too.

Plus, we don't have an urgent need for more gold right now, as far as I can see. What is much more precious to us, at this stage, is the room to manuever freely in geopolitical and military terms.

	26-08-2002 02:57									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Robber Baron Plus, we don't have an urgent need for more gold right now, as far as I can see. What is much more precious to us, at this stage, is the room to manuever freely in geopolitical and military terms.

Fully agree, if we entagle into alliances we could eaisly escalate this into something bigger. We have the ability to end this quick and spend some time without being at war to improve our infrastruture. (Pacifist, nah, I just want to become more efficient at troop building and have a more effecient road system to transport our soldiers)

Personally, I'd want to avoid war until:

1)We get a more productive government like Monarchy or Republic.

2)Built up some cities with high production tiles like Ubergorsk and BHQ (think we should mine the mountain) so we can spit out our most advanced military units faster.

3)Possibly do something to improve our science research or happiness like markeplace/library.

Then we should go for Persia (carve our names on the Pyramids) or Greece (just cause they're there).

Personally, I like Persia. It would give us the Pyramids, secure our back, give us Spice and Incense, and we could place the Forbidden Palace down there.

	26-08-2002 04:00									#19
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* MrWhereItsAt is dying to see the save so he can make his own judgements.....

	26-08-2002 05:16									#20
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Warmongers!!!

we just cannot afford to open up more hostilities, at all. no alliances, i say.

	26-08-2002 05:50									#21
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Germany is a maor threat since they do have rion, and have some huge cities that give them immense building capacities. We need to move troops to these areas and then prepare our counter attac, and at least take Hamburg.

I agree I don't think we can win against Germany, that's why I call for a rapid assault and taking of Hamburg. Make it seem like we were prepared for the war and they'll agree to peace since they weren't.

	26-08-2002 07:00									#22
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb 1)We get a more productive government like Monarchy or Republic.

We can get Republic through a war with Germany.

	26-08-2002 15:16									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt * MrWhereItsAt is dying to see the save so he can make his own judgements.....

hi ,

relax , it got lost with the tam-tam , ....

you can find it in the thread ; next term times and current report MIII , .....

enjoy and be prepared , ....


indeed we should switch to a republic , ...
it would be way more productive !

have a nice day

	26-08-2002 15:26									#24
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Of course we need Monarchy first. If we switch to Republic before we have built up our infrastructure and increased our population the high bonus won't be enough to justify the upkeep penalty and our economy would be ruined.

	26-08-2002 17:11									#25
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , relax , it got lost with the tam-tam , .... you can find it in the thread ; next term times and current report MIII , ..... enjoy and be prepared , .... indeed we should switch to a republic , ... it would be way more productive ! have a nice day

He was meaning being able to get his computer back so he can load it up and have a look.

	26-08-2002 17:18									#26
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx He was meaning being able to get his computer back so he can load it up and have a look.

hi ,



if we would start to get a university or two we could make him maybe a new one , ..... instead of the stone tablets he uses now , ....

so , a lot has been talked about now , should we get in an allaince with some or not , ....

have a nice day

	26-08-2002 18:51									#27
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I believe in following the plan laid out by Mr. Farb. Personally I believe, as he does, that Alliances will prohibit us from ending these wars ASAP. Granted, his plan revolves around blooding the noses of our enemies and asking them nicely if they would like to reconsider and in any game I have played, the AI never wants to talk to my embasies that fast - but it is a sound plan.

And I agree that we skip Munich and definately grab those settlers in our territory!

	27-08-2002 02:04									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Treestumpx I believe in following the plan laid out by Mr. Farb. Personally I believe, as he does, that Alliances will prohibit us from ending these wars ASAP. Granted, his plan revolves around blooding the noses of our enemies and asking them nicely if they would like to reconsider and in any game I have played, the AI never wants to talk to my embasies that fast - but it is a sound plan. And I agree that we skip Munich and definately grab those settlers in our territory!

hi ,

, both the settlers and munich and last but not least berlin or so , ....

have a nice day

	27-08-2002 03:05									#29
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I doubt it we can take Berlin when most of our forces are still in France.
And don't forget: Berlin is a capital, AND it's a city (8 population) which gives the units defending it a 100% defensive bonus! A fortified spearman inside Berlin has 4.5 defense.
No, there's absolutely no way we can take Berlin in this war.

	27-08-2002 03:21									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber I doubt it we can take Berlin when most of our forces are still in France. And don't forget: Berlin is a capital, AND it's a city (8 population) which gives the units defending it a 100% defensive bonus! A fortified spearman inside Berlin has 4.5 defense. No, there's absolutely no way we can take Berlin in this war.

Fully agree, Hamburg and sign the Peace Treaty while we're still putting out the fire.............