06-11-2000 17:44									#1
	WAR game Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Calling for wargame.

Supergigantic map, most sea, large islands (mostly), a little over average of trade goods.

25 settlers - not all starting on the same tile, 20 advances, 250.000 gold. Raging hordes of babarians.

And the special:

8 players, 24 hour rule. 1 fixed team of 3, 2 fixed teams of 2 and 1 alone. The single player must be no 1 or 2 to play, no teams will get 2 turns in a row. The teams are not allowed to make allicances with other teams - peace yes, but not official alliances. The single player can do as he likes and feel lucky to as long as he not officially joins a team (by using the diplomatic screen - offering alliance). A fixed team must not break up - only if a teammember leaves the game. Then the rest of the "team" plus the replacement WILL BE FREE TO MAKE NEW ALLIANCES, JOIN WHATEVER TEAM THEY LIKES (if the other team(s) will allow them in, that is) - OR BE ALONE.

Wonders: No wonders before turn 5. At least one stoneage wonder to each team - negotiations will be nessesary. If 5 players agrees, rush buy are allowed. If not - then it should take at least 20-25 turns to finish a wonder. I know that supicious minds would say NO-NO (expecting cheating) - but that's just another edge to the game. Some would cheat - perhaps.

No attacks on others before turn 3.

Maybe a ranking game?

Other suggestions?

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Woodstock was here!

	06-11-2000 18:03									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, this depends on your skills, but thanks to my PBEM ladder system, I'd like the game if we rate it, so letš wait for the others to express their opinion.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	07-11-2000 10:23									#3
	Got spare money?

I'm in. Quinns of the Inca. Settings are fine with me . Rated game sounds good!
[This message has been edited by quinns (edited November 20, 2000).]

	07-11-2000 05:13									#4
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I'd be interested.

	07-11-2000 20:59									#5
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This makes us 4.

Though this will be a wargame - the game are also open for diplomatic players - peaceloving players - and of course smiling players (just waiting to put a knife in your back).

Treason are welcome - want to go close to the real world - that's why I'm suggesting an UNBALANCED GAME.

Suggestions are welcome - fixed teams maybe not so fixed at all? A little less gold?

	09-11-2000 01:07									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

My only suggestion is to simplify the diplomacy a little. I'm kind of dense, and I don't quite understand who I can make an alliance with and at what time (and whether or not it's an official alliance or an unofficial allicance). And when is that allowed?

:scratching my head:

Quinns

	09-11-2000 11:42									#7
	Remove this text

General:

If I have understood the gamerules right, an official alliance (ally in the diplomatic screen) cancels the "zone of control", that your units has. 2 ally should be able to go/fight side by side.

Unofficial ally is when you use "private" e-mail to other gamers - either to ensure, that they don't use the oppotunity to backstab you while you are engaged somewhere else or even help you splitting another nation up.

Specific:

In this game, you can suggest who you want to be ally with (one or two other gamers). Then we make a fixed team out of you two/three. This team is then fixed UNTIL one of you drops out permanently. That would make a new situation, that we have to deal with.

Of cuourse, we could make this a "normal" fixed teamgame with 3 or 4 team of 2 players. But I like to try, how a game would be with unbalanced teams - and the possibility, that teams could change over time.


[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited November 09, 2000).]

	09-11-2000 19:00									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright BirdMan, thanks for the lengthy explanation. That helped me. Okay then, I think I got it. Sounds fine to me to stay "unbalanced". What does "the solo player must be no 1 or no 2" mean? Does that mean in terms of ratings?

Quinns

	09-11-2000 19:46									#9
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Nothing really but to give him the best possible start.

	10-11-2000 00:22									#10
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Okay then. I would like to try the solo position, if you don't mind.

	10-11-2000 00:27									#11
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So this is an agreement.

good luck - when we get players enough.

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Woodstock was here!

	11-11-2000 23:39									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK YOUR OLD FASHION GAMERS

You do not want to try something new ?

Then we do it the normal way (the gameplay I mean ).

8 players - but still: Many settlers, advances and gold.

I do not want to spend the first one or two months just pushing "next" buttom.

No fixed teams - no nothing else. Just plain game with or without alliances, backstabbing, treasons and what-so-ever .

This will lead to nothing else but a wargame. Peace will not be the most wanted feature anyway

Edit: Why can't I see the misspelling before I hit ?
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited November 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited November 11, 2000).]

	13-11-2000 16:50									#13
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I would join if it is possible. It will be my first PBEM game so perhaps I'll need some help. I've beat AI on King level. I can play about turn a day.
[This message has been edited by Kralj Matjaz (edited November 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Kralj Matjaz (edited November 13, 2000).]

	15-11-2000 18:17									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So, we come to a game with many settlers gold an tech. Yes, it might be interesting since the very begginig, as I have tried the game with normal start, and quit after seeing how slow it was. Rated game should be nice, of course, as we like the rating system, as I can see.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	15-11-2000 18:55									#15
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But still - if we only are 5-6.

It would be more fun with 8 I think.

Should we "push" someone?

	15-11-2000 19:13									#16
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On the one hand 8 players seem more fun, on the other hand that it slower. But I think 8 will do, as this game has an amazing quick starts and even the first turns will be interesing, even though slow.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	16-11-2000 00:03									#17
	Got spare money?

OK - I'll go on pushing someone.

We need some players, that has no regrets backstabbing or fooling others.

Players, who will act as The Holy Saint Himself and the next as the Devil (got it - you know who)?

Players like a certain "king" of Zwolle - playing Dutch would also be attractive to this game.

Noble players, simple players, aggressive players.

WE NEED 2 OR 3 MORE.............


HELP!

	16-11-2000 12:21									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

let me get this right it is no longer a war game of teams, but a normal game with 8 players. If you ask me that sounds borring.

	16-11-2000 13:40									#19
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8 players: Yes.

A "normal" game: No.

With lots of settlers, advances and gold, I'm sure you will feel the game racing. You should be able to buy units in a - until now - unseen number.

As to fixed teams or alliances: I'll make the gamesettings as wanted. I'm still open for suggestions - I just want a game without the slow start.

	16-11-2000 18:33									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, I guess I'll get smashed. You're good players, having lots of units, while I am only poor Solver .

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	17-11-2000 01:22									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

OK sonds great I'm in as the Vikings, If no one objects.

	18-11-2000 00:19									#22
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Sound good, I be either the Germans or the Americans if no one has caimed them yet.

	18-11-2000 01:15									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'll be Quinns of the Inca, if that's alright.

Let me know when you decide on the exact settings Birdman, so I can notify my Incan Planning Committee as soon as possible .

Solver, did you want to add Kralj Matjaz to our rating system? He said he's beaten King so that would make him an 18 rated player.

[This message has been edited by quinns (edited November 17, 2000).]

	18-11-2000 06:02									#24
	Tired of ads?

If you still have a space I'll play as the Russians in this one!

	18-11-2000 13:25									#25
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One more - then game will be launced tomorrow with info of all settings.

	18-11-2000 18:08									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'll take Egyptians then.

	19-11-2000 15:43									#27
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I have just playtestet the settings. It even better than I thought .

Here's some of the settings:

These 10 advances should all have:

ADVANCE_AGRICULTURE, ADVANCE_TOOLMAKING, ADVANCE_MINING, ADVANCE_BRONZE_WORKING, ADVANCE_STONE_WORKING, ADVANCE_WRITING, ADVANCE_GEOMETRY, ADVANCE_RELIGION, ADVANCE_BUREAUCRACY,
ADVANCE_ASTRONOMY.

From those 15 advances, all should have beweeen 0 and 10. In my test games, lowest was 2 and highest 9. Most get 4-6 advances.

ADVANCE_JURISPRUDENCE, ADVANCE_SHIP_BUILDING, ADVANCE_DOMESTICATION, ADVANCE_TRADE, ADVANCE_PHILOSOPHY, ADVANCE_MONARCHY, ADVANCE_IRON_WORKING, ADVANCE_CITY_STATE,
ADVANCE_THEOCRACY, ADVANCE_BANKING, ADVANCE_ENGINEERING, ADVANCE_ALCHEMY, ADVANCE_STIRRUP,
ADVANCE_CLASSICAL_EDUCATION, ADVANCE_HULL_MAKING.

20 settlers (take care of the happiness limit when settling (8 cities until you have a decent government) and what settler you use first (this will be your capitol).

250.000 gold.

No wonderrush before turn 5.

No aggressive act of war before turn 5.

Superlarge map.

Most islands.

Bararians in great number (I hope, I'm not sure the babarians will be active, because we already has 8 civs).

	19-11-2000 16:11									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I will not be scenario creator, anyway. As for the civ, I take Mayans, and wait for the game to come. And, just a reminder: this game will be, of course, rated.
And, Barbarians will work, even though there are 8 civs. Not sure about what all the advances are (using German CTP), but I think we do get Theocracy.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	19-11-2000 16:18									#29
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Maya you will be then.

And no - I have the hole scenario ready now - I'm only missing one more.

Anyway - if I do not get the last player, I make no. 8 as Mr_temp and e-mail abc@nowhere.com. Then we have a few days to find out, who wants to be "Mr_temp" .

We need 8 players due to the map-size.

	20-11-2000 00:54									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

I recommend we set up an e-mail group with egroups.com to keep track of turn progress as this works very well with the dutcheese game.

Also is there any chance we could have the Scenario in advance for a test run. It only seems fair as TheBirdMan has played it and had problems with happiness, I don't want my cities to all turn red on me after 5 turns .