28-08-2002 23:25									#151
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger IIRC, there's speculation that there's life on Europa (one of Jupiter's moons). I have no idea how much evidence supports the speculations, though.

The evidence consists mostly of evidence that there is liquid water and an energy source and the right elements. That may be enough for some form of life if there is enough of the right chemicals and Europa should have enough of the right elements anyway. Life is concievable there but that is it so far.

	28-08-2002 23:33									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Gary A reasonable point, I wasn't clear enough. If there is a start to this universe, and that seems to be the case, then I am making my assumptions regarding cause and effect to this universe that I am aware of. I make no assumption about before, as there was no before if the universe didn't exist.

You DID make an assumption about before. You assumed the Universe needed a cause.

quote: That's not how I see it. That's an assumption you have made because you've applied cause and effect outside of this universe as well. But even if you are correct, you have not only proved there to be a God, but an infinite series of them. That may be so, but is besides the point. One will do for now.

No. That was reducio ad absurdum not proof of a god. If your assumption leeds to an infinite regression you most likely have a bad assumption.

'The world is held upon the backs of elephants that are standing on turtles'

What are the turtles standing on?

'Oh no you don't, its turtles ALL THE WAY DOWN'

Thats the same absurdity as an infinite regresion of gods.

quote: Then you've lost your initial cause for this universe, which was one of the assumptions stated at the start, and a very reasonable one I believe.

I didn't lose a cause. I gave up an unjustifiable assumption. Your assumption results in an infinite regression unless you put a wholely arbritary stop on it. I just put the stop in earlier which is simpler. One less turn of the assumption machine.

	29-08-2002 00:26									#153
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About Europa, the cracks on the icy surface, which support the existance of liquid water below, have a certain color, which may indicate organic (living or dead) material.

	29-08-2002 01:24									#154
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Let's say for the sake of argument that there is a god. What does he/she do now? What is its function? What does it do on a day to day basis? The universe has already been created and everything seems to be working, so what is a day in the life of a supreme being like?

	29-08-2002 01:53									#155
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People still die everyday and need to be judged.

	29-08-2002 02:41									#156
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I see a lot of my arguments and comments are being ignored. Why? I'm replying to 98% of your (PH, Ethelred) arguments.........

	29-08-2002 03:13									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy People still die everyday and need to be judged.

So his job description is judge?

	29-08-2002 03:19									#158
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Some don't need a reply. If you want to bring them up again then I will give you a reply. I only commented where I thought it warranted. I didn't evade anything if that is what are thinking.

Many of your arguements have been dealt with many times before. I am only replying to your arguements not making any of my own except the obvious one.

There is no way to prove the existance or non-existance of a sufficiently general god.

Your version of god is not that vague. It entails a world we do not live in but that is not the point of this thread. That one sentence above covers the whole thing. I am only responding to comments I find unsuportable by any evidence here. I stayed out of it till someone made a silly comment about the square root of negative one.

Threads with titles like this are just trolls and were never intended for a serious discussion. I usually stay out of them till someone says something I can't restrain myself from commenting on. Creationism will do that because its so plainly a denial of the world we live in.

	29-08-2002 03:23									#159
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I see a lot of my arguments and comments are being ignored. Why? I'm replying to 98% of your (PH, Ethelred) arguments.........

I can see why... most of your posts are not logical... and lack any sense.

	29-08-2002 03:28									#160
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If you guys try really, really hard you can figure this out all on your own.
Now concentrate. Focus. Use the mind God gave you.

	29-08-2002 03:30									#161
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Sloww, put a sock in it. You have no right to say what is what. My mind was not created by any higher being because no such being exists.

And all I see there is a spectrum of light.

	29-08-2002 03:32									#162
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I have as much right as anyone, Fez.

	29-08-2002 03:37									#163
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And so do I.

Let me have my beliefs, peacefully.

	29-08-2002 03:42									#164
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Fez, you get bound up too easily, too tightly.
It wasn't directed just at you, nor even especially to you.
But you want it. you got it. I'll certainly leave you alone.

	29-08-2002 03:48									#165
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You're awfully quick to claim that your rights take precedence over others', Fez. That's not a good habit to get into.

	29-08-2002 03:50									#166
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I don't appreciate people throwing things in other people's faces.

	29-08-2002 03:52									#167
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What, you mean like opinions that you disagree with?

	29-08-2002 03:54									#168
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Saying look at the picture and then saying this: Use the mind God gave you.

Completely wrong in my opinion. Because god doesn't exist.

	29-08-2002 03:58									#169
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So nobody has the right to express an opinion, except for you and those who you agree with?

	29-08-2002 04:09									#170
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger So nobody has the right to express an opinion, except for you and those who you agree with?

Yes. I am authoritarian remember?

	29-08-2002 04:11									#171
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What sets you higher than everybody else? Why do you have the right to express an opinion while others do not? What objective justification do you have for this (apparently) irrational inconsistency?

	29-08-2002 04:12									#172
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger What sets you higher than everybody else? Why do you have the right to express an opinion while others do not?

Because their opinions are incorrect and misleading. Therefore they serve the country no interest.

	29-08-2002 04:14									#173
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In stating that their opinions are incorrect, I assume that you must have some objective proof (or at the very least some evidence) that god does not exist. What is this proof? If you have no proof (or even evidence), then how can you conclude that their opinions are incorrect?

	29-08-2002 04:15									#174
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger In stating that their opinions are incorrect, I assume that you must have some objective proof (or at the very least some evidence) that god does not exist. What is this proof? If you have no proof (or even evidence), then how can you conclude that their opinions are incorrect?

Their opinions are outrageous and illogical therefore they are wrong.

	29-08-2002 04:19									#175
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You missed this part, Fez:

quote: Originally posted by loinburger you must have some objective proof

It is not sufficient to arbitrarily declare an opinion invalid because it is illogical--you must objectively show that the opinion is illogical. Otherwise, the only conclusion that everybody else can draw is that your opinion differs, and that you inconsistently disrespect others' right to voice their (apparently equivalent) opinions.

Declaring an opinion to be invalid because it is "outrageous" is completely subjective, and is therefore insufficient as a justification for your inconsistency.

	29-08-2002 04:20									#176
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Illogical this, illogical that... stop questioning what I believe.

	29-08-2002 04:22									#177
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand If you guys try really, really hard you can figure this out all on your own. Now concentrate. Focus. Use the mind God gave you.

Use the tools that Adobe Photoshop gives you and enhance the contrast on the image.


Otherwise its a very nice photo of a normal well understood (for centuries) physical phenomana that in no way constitutes evidence for any kind of god.

	29-08-2002 04:22									#178
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Fez: Why am I not allowed to question your beliefs, when you are quick to question the beliefs of others? What objective justification can you provide for this apparently irrational inconsistency?

	29-08-2002 04:24									#179
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Why am I not allowed to question your beliefs, when you are quick to question the beliefs of others? What objective justification can you provide for this apparently irrational inconsistency?

Irrational inconsistency..



Anyways, that picture in no way proves anything. It cannot.

	29-08-2002 04:25									#180
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Gee Fez you are questioning what he believes.

My problem with Slowhand is that he is a hit and run type of poster. He doesn't have the guts to stick around and actually discuss things.

You don't have the will to deal with other peoples opinion. Both are dubious qualities on a discussion forum.