23-10-2002 02:34									#31
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Nah. Try this...

Ethiopia
Queen Zawditu
UU: Sarwe

Holland
Stadholder William of Orange
UU: Ship-of-the-Line

Incas
Inca Athualpa
UU: Sun Warrior

Israel
King David
UU: Slinger

Polynesia
King Kamehameha
UU: Double Canoe

and

Portugal
King Manuel
UU: Nao

Now, that's what I call a future civs list.

Perhaps if they decide on 7 more civs instead, we could have...

Khmer
King Jayvarman
UU: Elephant Archer

But that'd be pretty much all you'd need.

As for the Dutch, who asks "what did they produce"? Have you ever heard of Rembrandt, or Ruebens? Or try New York (New Amsterdam). They gave us a lot!

	23-10-2002 02:37									#32
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Beren-- It has hardly been proven. That's just speculation.

	23-10-2002 12:29									#33
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Beren-- It has hardly been proven. That's just speculation.

Have you listened to anything I said? It HAS been proven. In centuries of oral tradition this story has been carried over from generation to generation. This story was well known. (Tale has it that the sultan heard rumours of a land in the west and sent his fleet of twenty ships westward, burdened with gold. Only one of them returned, but they had established trade with the Aztecs. The sultan wished to go himself and left his kingdom to his brother.)
More importantly: Gold analysis of the Aztec temples show that the gold is indeed from Malinese origin. If you would have an alternative explanation for that give it to me and surprise the entire scientific world.

	24-10-2002 06:07									#34
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Beren-- Could you please post some solid sources?

	24-10-2002 06:48									#35
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I think the Serbs should be a civ. Although they didnt have the biggest empire (if you could even call it that) for very long, they STILL IMO belong in the game more than say the Iroquoix (sp) , or the Americans.

Another one i really dont understad is why the Byzantine arent in it. Or are they? Ive checked the list for PTW and didnt see them. Whats up with that?

Oh yeah, i dont think the Israelies should be a civ. Maybe call it Zionists?

	24-10-2002 12:30									#36
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Beren-- Could you please post some solid sources?

OK, I didn't got it from a book, but from a person. He is a professor at the Rijksuniversity of Groningen, mister de Boer. He is chief of the department of Middle ages. He gave a whole college of this story (to 258 first years students.) It is compulsory and we have to know it. If he says that the Aztec gold came from Mali and that there are gold analysis that prove that, I believe him. If you don't, let me know and I'll speak to him about it. (I'll have to find him, but that shouldn't be hard.)

	25-10-2002 00:08									#37
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Hebrews, Inca, Songhai/Mali, Byzantines, Dutch, Portugese, Khmer.

	25-10-2002 00:09									#38
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You guys are underscoring the Byzantines, I imagine that they are a shoe-in for the next XP.

	25-10-2002 00:11									#39
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In fact, I would say that the Inca, Hebrews, Byzantines and Dutch are all shoe-ins. The remaining two or three spots are extremely mysterious though, due to the rather large number of civs that they could conceivably pick.

	25-10-2002 00:27									#40
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Inca
Maya
Possibly Hopi or some other southwestern US Tribe, otherwise the Sioux
Goths
Mali
Ethiopia
Byzantines(definately)
Khmer
I always liked the Scythians
Hittites and Lydia just because such obvious examples of a single technology advance making so much difference, not many other reasons.

Shoot, I've gone over. No bother put the rest in an expansion pack.

	25-10-2002 16:40									#41
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Sorry to go a bit off topic, but for all supporters of Polish civ here, go and download the Polish mod by Piernik, LoD and others, available in the files forum (the separate Polish thread). It has beautifully animated leader heads, a hussar special unit and everything else a professional-made civ needs. Truly a beauty

We don't need Firaxis to introduce Poles any more (though if I were them, I'd buy the copyrights from these guys and public the add-on)

	26-10-2002 03:28									#42
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Mayans
Incans
Ethiopia
Mali
Khmer
Polinesia
and Costa Ricans!

	27-10-2002 02:19									#43
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Israel
The Netherdlands
Portugal
Latin America (a country, please)
Inca
Maya
Hungary

I wish I have an 8th civ: Byzantines (a must, in my humble opinion)

	28-10-2002 20:25									#44
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Of the recently proposed. The smaller number, the bigger my support is;

1) Byzantine - unless You all admit that it was Rome
and add their cities, their leaders to the Roman civ.
2)Poland
3)Ethiopia for Africa - in fact only African civ worth attention perhaps except for Nubians and Numidians
4)Inca
5)Maya - both needed for America
7)Dutch or Portugeese

perhaps Khmers,
eventually Hungarians.

Certainly not Hebrews/Israelies.
Better Arameans then.

	17-11-2002 02:02									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Axis Kast I, for one, propose the addition of new civilizations as part of a larger package – “The Lost Civilizations.” This title covers ground that would allow us to explore several civilizations no longer a part of our world (or narrowly not) within the Civ III experience. Seven pertinent choices come to mind: the Confederate States of America (UU: CS cavalry, early submarine), the Kingdom of Austria-Hungary (UU: hussar, grenadier), the Kingdom of Siam (UU: elephant archer), the Kingdom of Greater Serbia (UU: grenadier, citizen’s militia), the Boer Republics (UU: Boer), the Inca Empire (UU: eagle warrior), and the Kingdom of Aragon-Castille (UU: man-at-arms, late crusaders?).

aragon-castille could be represented by spain.

confederates would have been ecenomically forced rejoin union or mexico by 1900 anyway.

i like boer republic
and inca

siam/thailand/knmer/annam[vietnam] of
of course koreans could be changed to this as korea was largely just fought over between china and japan for much of its history [no korean empire except in cheap merchandise]

hungary [of A-H] aka Magyars is good

	17-11-2002 02:21									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Beren If you want to include any Sub-Sahara civilization I think you must go for Mali (certainly not Zululand.) I was convinced to choose for Ethiopia for a while (or whatever spelling you choose to use), but there is a crucial breakthrough that made me change my mind. I heard about Mali. It has been proved that even before Columbus reached America, Mali did and traded with the Aztecs. Gold analysis shows that the gold used in the Aztec temples is from Mali origin. The king of Mali himself decided to set sail to America and left his kingdom to his brother (he never returned). Arab historians even report that when the Mali king went on his journey to Mecca, he took with him so much gold, that the Arab gold market collapsed. In short: the king (I think we are supposed to name him sultan) of Mali was a very rich man. I think what is part of the explanation that people want Ethiopia is that Ethiopia is christian. On the other hand, Ethiopia too is a good choiche, but in my opinion it is just second best. I choose Inca, because I think it was truly a civilized country and has as much (if not more) right to be included. I choose for Thai/Khmer, because that civilisation has been neglected. All those civs in the middle east will make it very crowded in the area. The hittites were impressive, but short-lived. Armenia is not a bad idea, but never impressive. Lydia only invented coins, nothing else was done there. Assyria could be used, Israel couldn't (There too damn small and didn't achieve a thing, except when they were already conquered: at that time they had some religious inovations.) I didn't vote for Poland, maybe I should have. Maybe it should have been Lithuana.

the mali king in question traded salt for gold in arab egypt [cairo] even by weight and collapsed the economy clear to babylon. but he needed the salt both ways. he was an the Haj to mecca. today muslims have it much easier to take the haj...

	17-11-2002 02:46									#47
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my list:
inca - sun warrior
netherland - ship of the line
Israel - merkava [no slinger unt that i know of]

definately


then Khmer or other indo chinese civ

and portugal

i might put java/indonesia or malay down

or australian aborigines

polynesia would be nice - is there a unit graphic [flic] of that double canoe?

	17-11-2002 20:31									#48
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hi ,

a bigger map might be welcome to place about 8 new additional civs , .......

have a nice day

	23-11-2002 20:50									#49
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israel (better: hebrew), netherlands, polynesians, inca, maya

plus also inuit and one or two big modern day countries (brasil, argentina, canada, south africa, nigeria, indonesia, australia, etc.)

	24-11-2002 03:45									#50
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Apache-Raider 2.2.2,Geronimo

Incas-Sun Warrior

Austrailia-Boomeranger 3.1.1

Netherlands-Ship of the Line 2.3.4/2.1.2

All I have to say.

	25-11-2002 16:02									#51
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Maybe I already said something different, but ignore that post:

Include (in order of importance) the Incas, the Thai or Khmer, the Mali (or possibly the Ethiopians), only then start looking for expanding the number of European civs.

	26-11-2002 04:54									#52
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anybody got info on leaders, uu ideas, and civopedia entry for portugal?

i found stuff for
1.incan[ lots]
2.dutch
3.hebrews/israel
4.songai [subsaharan african besides zulu]
5. Khmer [used for thai also]
6. indonesian

for world mod

for europe mod i plan to add poland, hungary, etc
[31 european/invader civs]

btw can you place land units loaded on naval units for scenarios? it would help [for mongol invasion of japan on that mod]

	28-11-2002 00:53									#53
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absolutely Dutch Inca Mayans Khmer and Mali

perhaps Poles and Portugese

I'm against Israelis, Canadians, Scots (too close to Celts), a Latin American 'country' civ, any more Middle Eastern civs, and Tibet

	28-11-2002 00:55									#54
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what would the UU for the Canadians be...seriously now?

Dutch should have an upgraded galleon or transport ship
Inca can have a strong warrior, or perhaps a warrior that treats all tiles as roads
Mayans an upgraded archer, perhaps 3.1.1

	28-11-2002 05:55									#55
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quote: Originally posted by orange what would the UU for the Canadians be...seriously now? Dutch should have an upgraded galleon or transport ship Inca can have a strong warrior, or perhaps a warrior that treats all tiles as roads Mayans an upgraded archer, perhaps 3.1.1

what else but a RCMP [royal canadian mounted Police -the Mounties] like dudley doright or gone south...

	28-11-2002 06:22									#56
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quote: Originally posted by orange absolutely Dutch Inca Mayans Khmer and Mali perhaps Poles and Portugese I'm against Israelis, Canadians, Scots (too close to Celts), a Latin American 'country' civ, any more Middle Eastern civs, and Tibet

i personally think celts were a mistake if france was there too, but any way... i figure sales in israel will get them slot as well as netherlands... inca might knosk latin country and/or mayans out. khmer seem to be best ancient se asian civ [could be representative of all indochinese area... songhai/mail/abyssinia[ethiopia] should be easy... sorry but i agree canada won't probably get a slot... but if they do canada, they might as well do australia too...

remamber sales projections of that patch/expansion [like they won't charge for this...]

why do you think korea made it as early civ over incas, dutch, and mali/songhai?

so israel. netherland, inca [for south american sales], portugal [again besides portugal - latin americans get 4 powers! or 7 - guyana, guiana, and suriname]
songhai [?maybe -should be done, but what are sales projections for subsaharan africa? no offense to any one from that area, i wish they would have one... the civs have been done in mods]
knmer would be marketed for SE asia [thai and singapore $ for game and both expansions [$29.99+$29.99+$29.99= $89.97
hmmm who else could they milk for new higher game sales??? indonesia got extra game money?? make a good civ but remember marketing... poland got money??
czech?

ohhh.. yeah the Helvetians [swiss] a minor civ but the swiss got gobs of cash...

and canada and australia DO HAVE CASH!$$$$$

hmmm which way should they go vs which way they probably will go...

it's a hard decision ... should they pick legitimate deserving civs or find a way to sell the expansion milking more money out of us [the patches for it will be made every 3 or 4 months after its released but thats how its done...

	28-11-2002 06:28									#57
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quote: Originally posted by orange what would the UU for the Canadians be...seriously now?

how about a redneck? a worker, but clears forests and jungles in half the time.

quote: Dutch should have an upgraded galleon or transport ship Inca can have a strong warrior, or perhaps a warrior that treats all tiles as roads

too powerful. aztecs already have a fast moving warrior (2 MP). if the inca one moves 3 per turn it's in the most situations even faster than the jaguar warrior. only on own roads it's slower (3 instead of 6). this unit would make the aztecs too strong in the early game on big maps...

quote: Mayans an upgraded archer, perhaps 3.1.1

sounds good. it's the strongest unit (archers come with the starting tech for militaristic until mounted warrior and could be slightly overpowered, but why not?

	28-11-2002 06:39									#58
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quote: Originally posted by hahntsak why do you think korea made it as early civ over incas, dutch, and mali/songhai?

also because one guy here posted an essay, why the koreans should be in... i think that thread reached far more than 500 posts. firaxis must have been impressed

quote: ohhh.. yeah the Helvetians [swiss] a minor civ but the swiss got gobs of cash...

haha can't believe that not even i would have asked for that. i play civ3 for game purposes and not for nationalistic reasons, so i don't mind playing other civs
industrial and/or scientific and/or commercial would be suitable.

quote: and canada and australia DO HAVE CASH!$$$$$

it's not all about cash.

or seriously, would you buy a civ4 if the first 8 civs were the richest or largest?
america, canada, germany, australia, england, france, australia, switzerland, korea, brasil

	28-11-2002 08:30									#59
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf also because one guy here posted an essay, why the koreans should be in... i think that thread reached far more than 500 posts. firaxis must have been impressed haha can't believe that not even i would have asked for that. i play civ3 for game purposes and not for nationalistic reasons, so i don't mind playing other civs industrial and/or scientific and/or commercial would be suitable. it's not all about cash. or seriously, would you buy a civ4 if the first 8 civs were the richest or largest? america, canada, germany, australia, england, france, australia, switzerland, korea, brasil

i'm not saying i support the cash based civs idea, but essay or not korea wasn't as impressive as holland or mali or incas... i often play greece or carthage... or arabs i think incas is a must get next netherland is up in polls and israel them mayans [if incas doesnt squeeze them or vice versa] then hopefully mali/songhai, then thai/khmer and maybe indonesian. perhaps israel or polynesian or portugal [doubt it, though i 'd like to see it] or poland [again much as i think they would be cool i don't expect to see them.

btw i don't expect them to be as cheezy as to include swiss, canadians, or aussies... sorry mates, chocolate dudes and mountie lovers... now aboriginal aussies... what is their self designation ???

other cizs i don't expect to see: afrikaaners, Hittite, akkadian, inuit...


but they will charge another $29.95 for these 7 civs and littles else other than perhaps finally giving direct ip ....
[if only they could add 4 more on mp, but i suppose that's too much to ask for considering they'll only demand another $29.95 in addition to what we all already spent...]

	28-11-2002 08:38									#60
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf or seriously, would you buy a civ4 if the first 8 civs were the richest or largest? america, canada, germany, australia, england, france, australia, switzerland, korea, brasil

largest? where's china, india, russia...

btw if they read this:

-->>> do not make civ4 with canadians, aussies or swiss unless you got lots of civs [+35] including mali, incas , etc....

others civs to pass on: luxemburg, lichtenstein

not because they're small and really weak [but not broke] i might play lichtenstein if they had decent uu....