01-09-2002 17:07									#1
	Worker placings for our first base Inflate your Upload Space

Here's our start site.

Assuming we start right here, we have a patch of good terrain-- a mineral resource close by, lots of moist/rolling land.

Which square should we first work?

(I've noted my two suggestions. 1 is the mineral resource square; it's 0/3/0 with no mine, 0/7/0 with. 2 is a rolling moist square 1000 m above sea level; it's 1/1/0 now.)

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	01-09-2002 17:09									#2
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How many tuns would it take the base to grow in your two scenarios?

	01-09-2002 17:13									#3
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The base square is 2/1/2, so:

Scenario 1:

2 nutrients, 4 minerals, 2 energy. No growth.
Scout patrols done in 3 turns, formers in 5, CPs in 8.

Scenario 2:

3 nutrients, 2 minerals, 2 energy. 21 turns to grow. Scout patrols in 5, formers in 10, CPs in 15.

Edit: fixed growth projections
Edit: fixed base energy production

Last edited by Vlad Antlerkov on 01-09-2002 at 17:31

	01-09-2002 17:25									#4
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I did my own research:

scenario1: the rocky tile:
nutrient surplus: 0 -> growth stagnant
mineral surplus: 4
energy surplus: 2

scenario2: the rollin and moist tile:
nutrient: surplus: 1 -> growth in 21 turns
mineral surplus: 2
energy surplus: 2

Because we need to grow, I would suggest applying scenario 2, despite the drop in mineral production it would result in.

	01-09-2002 17:30									#5
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D'oh, forgot to include the fact that workers need food, and I got the base energy production wrong...

* Vlad Antlerkov hits himself in the head. Many times. With a hammer.

	01-09-2002 17:32									#6
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Man that must hurt.

	01-09-2002 17:42									#7
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If we had formers to start, I'd suggest I simply to build that former quicker then get it onto a 1/1/0 and farm it. We don't however, so a 1/1/0 square it'll have to be. Hopefully our second base (PLEASE build it 2-3 squares west on the diagonal whoever is in charge of this) will be in a slightly better position.

	01-09-2002 18:21									#8
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Why west? I won't explore in the western direction as it's forbidden to play ahead. But as far as I know there is a Unity Wreckage there in the SMAX Planet map with arid and flat tiles. I don't know what was there in SMAC, but I doubt it would be rainy tiles. Go east! Towards the sea!

Edit: Besides, west is fungus. It will take us precious turns to cross that patch.

	01-09-2002 18:39									#9
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Whoa! Hey, what the.... Son of a.... When and how and who started? Where is the save? WTF?

	01-09-2002 18:40									#10
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Oh, my apologies. I wasn't aware of the exact starting location.

In that case then, 2 squares east is perfect. That's the square which should connect the freshwater sea and the ocean if a base is built there, correct?

	01-09-2002 19:10									#11
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MWIA: Darkness' Edge started. We haven't founded a base yet, though.

Save is here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=60650

IMHO, I reckon we're north of the freshwater sea.

We're playing SMAC, so no unity wreckage. Not sure about the raininess of where the unity wreckage would be in SMAC, though.

Archaic: Correct. And we'd still get access to the mineral resource (and a few more in that area, IIRC).

	01-09-2002 19:23									#12
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i think we're south of the sea. if memory serves me correctly, another faction should be started north of it around pholus ridge.

Pand, vlad, MWIA: i'm going to do my best to get to industrial automation as soon as i can, but i need all 3 of you to make sure we get that rocky tile mined, roaded, and crawled ASAP

	01-09-2002 19:39									#13
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TKG: There are only two points where land between the FW Sea and the ocean is one tile wide, and both are NE of the FW Sea. We can see one of them to the east.

In other words, we're that faction.

And I'll ask for crawlers when we can build them. Just wait.

	01-09-2002 19:46									#14
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hmm. now i see what you mean. i was thinking we were south of it, and those 2 sea tiles were both ocean. if the sea is directly south, then there's rainy tiles to the north

	01-09-2002 21:28									#15
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Hmm, since Pandemoniak hasn't started a base placement thread I'll post my 2 cents here...

Do we want to move around to start our first base? On the one hand, we lose several turns of production by doing that. On the other hand, our production at this base site will not be very good, so finding a new site might be in our best interest.

There are two possibilities, in my mind, should we decide to move: Two squares east (if I have my bearings right) is the first of the isthmus squares where we could build a canal base connecting the ocean with the freshwater sea. And, going by TKG's statements, there are rainy squares to the north.

Future expansion sites to consider are the river northwest of the sea, for crucial energy for research (Centauri Ecology anyone?), and the canal squares. The river, though, is far enough away that I don't think it would be cost-effective to try and place our first base there.

In my mind, finding a base with rainy/rolling squares to allow sustained growth is more important than starting right away, as we would only be harvesting a single mineral on top of what we get from the base square anyway. With that in mind, I'd endorse TKG's idea of the rainy squares to the north -- if people decide that using previous knowledge of the map to decide our base location is legitimate.

If we start right here, much as I hate to lose the two minerals, I'd have to agree with the sentiments so far -- stagnant growth is just too harsh to allow. Recycling tanks should be an early priority, in that case -- but not so early as to impinge on Former production, once we have developed CentEco.

Thoughts?

	01-09-2002 22:33									#16
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I would start right there. I believe those rainy tiles TKG refers to are those of the Pholus Ridge, miles away.

Disclaimer: I have almost never played on the Huge Map of Planet, most of the time on the normal sized one.

Normally I'm against building rec tanks, but this starting location is rather special, with its rocky mineral resource etcetera. So perhaps we should build one, but only if it can be finished before we reach Centauri Ecology. Otherwise we're wasting precious turns that could be used to terraform & farm a tile.

	01-09-2002 22:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I would start right there. I believe those rainy tiles TKG refers to are those of the Pholus Ridge, miles away.

heh, well, i drew a crude map...



there are rainy tiles far south of the ridge. but which "here?" are we at?

	02-09-2002 00:38									#18
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place the base right there, square II for the worker and the secong base due east as a suez/panama canal. that what i think but poll on the baseplacements would be in order here!

	02-09-2002 00:46									#19
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I´d prefer going one step south to have much Freshwater Sea in Range and an early Base.

How about fixing the screenshot with numbers or letters on the edge squares.

	02-09-2002 00:49									#20
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one step south is fungus

i agree that we do need at least ONE base on the sea so we can make a sea base or 2 in the sea its self.

	02-09-2002 00:49									#21
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liking the input of the new guy! ( keep posting we need more active members ) but south would mean fungus! south-east is better but DTC start a poll about it or something

	02-09-2002 00:56									#22
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yeah ok, it looked a bit light on the screenshot.

ok, now I´m for southeast, too !

	02-09-2002 00:57									#23
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i vote to put the pod 1 tile south-east. it looks like it has more potential borehole tiles. move the extra pod northwest. if we have time for a 1 or 2 day poll, that'd be great pande.

	02-09-2002 00:59									#24
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Or why don't we send one pod two tiles east to the presumed canal, and the other north to pop a pod and found a base somewhere in that direction. I wouldn't send the pod northwest because it might not be able to cross the fungus. Every year is vital now.

	02-09-2002 01:01									#25
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or just poll second pod but put the first one where the most people want we need to get this game started and IF everone (espially DE) i can start a thread for every director to post there orders and where everone can read what happend...?

	02-09-2002 01:02									#26
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agree wit Maniac about the year thing

	02-09-2002 12:03									#27
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I say the first order of business is to send our Scout one tile north and see what's there.

Assuming it's nothing special, I say we found our first base where we are, working that 1-1-0 square, farming/solaring that to 2-1-2, using that to jump to size 2, then using the (eventually) mined/roaded minerals for no growth at size 2, but 9 production to quickly finish off any Colony Pod being built. It'll be an excellent SP base, not even needing a Recreation Commons since it'll reach 10 production at size 2 with a Recycling Tanks, enough to finish an early SP in 20 years, a remarkable time.

The other base I suggest we send out two or so squares to the east...if there's nothing special (no river, nothing), I'd be rather disappointed (since, in my limited Huge Map of Planet experience, there seems to be quite a few Nutrient resources in the Freshwater Sea), but if that's the case I think we should work a 1-1-0 square. We'll finish our Scout or whatever in 5 years, then get to 10 minerals in about 5 years, at which point hopefully we'll have Ecology and can hurry a Former to turn our land into a 2-1-1 at least. If we found the base only two tiles away, we can hopefully time our two bases to share the (eventually) mined Mineral bonus - while one is at size 2 finishing off the Colony Pod easily thanks to the 7 minerals, the other is at size 1 growing back on the 2-1-? square. That way we never waste those 7 minerals, more FoPs on one square than just about anything early on, even a Monolith .

Some of this should go in T&C, oh well.

Z

	02-09-2002 12:32									#28
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10 minerals with pop 2?
Aren't there mineral caps at the start of the game, keeping you from getting full production at a base?

Oh, and i'm going for the pod north of us with the scout

	02-09-2002 12:35									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy Aren't there mineral caps at the start of the game, keeping you from getting full production at a base?

Yes, but it's negated with a Mineral bonus ...hehehe...11 (or is it 12 for a Rocky Road/Mine?) Former-years away from a 0-7-0 square...the first Farms are more important, I think, though. We do need to get to size 2 before we can use that tile, or we'd be stuck at size 1 and unable to build any Pods....

Z