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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Asher, I rest my case here. Monkspider said it best. |
It's all in the eye of the beholder. I had a PS2 and sold it a while back because I didn't think the "AAA" games were all that good. The reason why they were "AAA" is because everything else sucked so badly they looked amazing in comparison. 
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you do know that the FIFA games get a lower score on the PS2 than on the XBox? by your reasoning, the reviewers should have giving the same score to both games! yet they didn't. The two games are exactly the same on both consoles, only the PS2 version has lesser graphics. If reviewes didn't look at games on other consoles, they would have rated both games equally, would they not? It's obvious reviewers do look at games on other consoles for comparison (FIFA being the prime example). I rest my case. |
Really? So I guess you'd disagree with the GameSpot reviewers, who actually do the reviews, who have said they compare it to what the console can do and what games the console has that competes with it.
Maybe the reason why the PS2 version gets slightly lower is because, as you said yourself, PES is a better game and is available for the PS2?
Game reviews tend to be relative to other content on that PLATFORM, not against all games completely. You just proved my point...
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Too easy fanboy. 
more popular = better, in a lot of cases. |
Yes, like Ford cars, like Britney Spears, like N'Sync, like living life off credit card debt, etc.
More popular = more accessable to the general public, or the casual gamer. People who spend more time gaming tend to be more critical and more picky about their games, which is why there's a lot of "AAA" titles on the PS2 that simply aren't that great -- they're easy to pick up and appealing to the mass market. That's why they're popular, not because they're necessarily better.
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Of course, in the Xbox vs Sony case, this reasoning doesn't apply. MS is spending MORE money on marketing, than (probably) Sony and Nintendo combined! Yet still the Xbox isn't as popular as the other two consoles. Why? Cause the XBox simply isn't all that good! |
Or perhaps because Sony had a 1.5 year headstart with practically no competition, and boneheads like you refuse to get the better console because you already paid for your (grossly overpriced and underpowered) console because it's the cool thing to do.
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And of course, the only facts that are completely useless are the specs of the console. Sure, if I bought a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 I'd have a better computer than I have now. No question about it. Yet, it won't make the games I play any better. |
You're comparing apples to oranges. If EVERYONE had a 2.8GHz P4, it would make the games you play a lot better. More realistic AI, better physics, larger draw distances, more characters on the screen at once, etc.
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If so, the Xbox should blow the PS2 right out of the market, and the XBox games should be vastly superior to those of the PS2. Yet, I've given numerous examples that show the oposite. |
The Xbox does blow the PS2 out of the water once you play it. You don't seem to understand the nature of the market: People buy the PS2 because everyone else has a PS2. You've even said that yourself. It's the "cool" thing to do, most people don't give a second thought about it. It's actually called the bandwagon mentality.
Hell, the Xbox costs 10 pounds less than the PS2 now in Europe and you're getting FAR more stuff. Sony is ripping everyone off, and you know it, and that's also why you can't afford the Xbox.
The reason the PS2 is popular is because of momentum from 1.5 years of having no real competition and backwards compatibility with the PSX. It's further amplified by the bandwagon mentality of today's gamers, who don't buy a Gamecube because it's "gay" and don't buy an Xbox because "it sucks", but buy the PS2 because everyone else has one.
Fortunately, this won't be the same game next time around. Sony is apparently screwing up bigtime with their "Cell" plans for the PS3, and MS and Nintendo are rumored to be teaming up for the next console -- and this time Sony won't get a head start, and the Xbox2 will be backwards compatible.
Sony better enjoy their time on top while they can, everyone knows how quickly video game "monopolies" are overturned. 
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
funny. A MS lover talking about Sony's monopolies.
**cough**MS anti trust case**cough** |
You mean the MS anti-trust case which resulted in a slap on the wrist and had nothing to do with video games?
Sony is far more evil than MS. You just don't know what they're up to. Like, say, their recent attempts to lobby the US government to make it legal for them to hack into any computer they suspect has pirated materials. Or how they strongarmed retailers who sold Bleem products. Or about how they work together with other Japanese firms with the support of the Japanese government to put American (and Euro) firms out of business.
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Why is the GC more popular than the Xbox, like in this poll? The GC should be inferior to the Xbox as well, yet again it doesn't show. And the headstart argument is bullshit in this case |
Do you even have to ask?
1) It's cheaper
2) It's got the "Nintendo" name and bigname franchises
And FYI, it's not more popular in North America despite all of that.
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You can blame MS for screwing up and not launching the Xbox sooner. Sony was smart, and won this console war, like the last. Don't be a sour loser. MS screwed up, deal with it. |
How did MS screw up? Do you realize how quickly the Xbox was developed compared to the PS2? 
The PS2 took 5 years, the Xbox took 1.5, I think MS did a damn fine job. There was simply no possible way for them to launch it at the PS2's launch.
It doesn't matter anyway, thankfully the Xbox is getting tons of support, sales are picking up, and Xbox2 is coming at the same time as PS3. The Xbox isn't going anywhere and is only gaining momentum while the PS2 is losing it.
The Xbox and GCN are superior to the PS2. It's that simple. You keep trying the same old tired argument that "the PS2 has more games, and therefore has lots of good games, and is therefore better". It's been out twice as long, and only has 50% more games than the Xbox. And this is an "incumbant" platform -- that's pathetic if you ask me.
You're obviously incapable of even seeing 3-4 months into the future, and it's people like you that marketers adore.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:22
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BTW: http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ry.php?id=79307
quote:
Tuesday 27th August 2002
US XBOX SURGE PREDICTED FOR CHRISTMAS
American gamers are gearing up to splash the cash on Microsoft's console than any other, says a recent Gigex survey: full story here
13:34 A survey recently conducted by Gigex has shown that 39 percent of 12,000 American gamers questioned are planning to buy an Xbox before the end of this year.
The figure compares to 27 percent of the sample looking to grab a PlayStation 2 in 2003, and 17 percent readying cash for a GameCube.
No such research has yet been undertaken in Europe.
Xbox is currently the subject of heavy rumour concerning a Christmas price cut, as is PlayStation 2. Both consoles will also have online play available for the end of the year, both in Europe and America; Sony's PS2 network adaptor was made available in the States today.
Microsoft will confirm Christmas plans for Xbox at its European X02 event in southern Europe next month, which, if last year's Cannes soiree is anything to go by, should be a glittering affair. Impresionante, huh?
The same survey also revealed that a whopping 78 percent of US gamers make their minds up on whether to buy a game primarily on testing a playable demo. |
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monkspider
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banned
Aug 2001
time: 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's all in the eye of the beholder. I had a PS2 and sold it a while back because I didn't think the "AAA" games were all that good. The reason why they were "AAA" is because everything else sucked so badly they looked amazing in comparison. |
Well if this is the crux of your arguement against PS2, I must say i'm a tad disappointed Ashie. I have played X-BOX's AAA games and found myself to be considerably underwhelmed for the most part. But that doesn't mean that I consider them to be bad games, just games that aren't my style. So Microsoft-loyalties notwithstanding, Playstation 2 has a lot more games that are considered AAA by most people than Microsoft. Surely you can't deny this Ashie.
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More popular = more accessable to the general public, or the casual gamer. People who spend more time gaming tend to be more critical and more picky about their games, which is why there's a lot of "AAA" titles on the PS2 that simply aren't that great -- they're easy to pick up and appealing to the mass market. That's why they're popular, not because they're necessarily better. |
Oh Come on Ashie, don't resort to this elitist nonsense. You're better than that. Why is this rule of elitism unique in not applying to "AAA" X-BOX games then?  And again, simply because you may or may not like a game doesn't mean that no one else should. I don't like Gran Turismo 3 but that doesn't mean that I don't consider it amongst the best racing games available.
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The Xbox does blow the PS2 out of the water once you play it. You don't seem to understand the nature of the market: People buy the PS2 because everyone else has a PS2. You've even said that yourself. It's the "cool" thing to do, most people don't give a second thought about it. It's actually called the bandwagon mentality. |
Here is where you let your fanboyism clearly overpower your sense of reason Ashie. You tell everyone that X-BOX is far superior to PS2 without any really compelling reason. You still can't beat the arguement that PS2 has far more good games (that is games that are considered good by critics and fans, not exclusively me or you ) and that videogame systems are for playing games , not oogling over fancy hardware chips.
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
I get everything on computer (and that is what I mostly use also).
Jon Miller |
that should be an everything else on computer
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
Well if this is the crux of your arguement against PS2, I must say i'm a tad disappointed Ashie. I have played X-BOX's AAA games and found myself to be considerably underwhelmed for the most part. But that doesn't mean that I consider them to be bad games, just games that aren't my style. So Microsoft-loyalties notwithstanding, Playstation 2 has a lot more games that are considered AAA by most people than Microsoft. Surely you can't deny this Ashie. |
It did, but it doesn't anymore. The only games on the PS2 I truly find AAA are MGS2, GTA3, Ico, and GT3. I've got a better version of GTA3 on my PC, MGS2: Substance hits PCs in early 2003 and Xbox in November 2002, and I've already gotten bored of GT3 and Ico.
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Oh Come on Ashie, don't resort to this elitist nonsense. You're better than that. Why is this rule of elitism unique in not applying to "AAA" X-BOX games then? And again, simply because you may or may not like a game doesn't mean that no one else should. I don't like Gran Turismo 3 but that doesn't mean that I don't consider it amongst the best racing games available. |
The people who are buying Xboxes right now are more or less "hardcore" gamers. I'm not pulling that out of my ass, the Xbox's tiein ratio is an average of like 5.1 games per 1 Xbox as of May of this year. So when the console was 8 months old, people were buying 5.1 games per box on average. The PS2's average, at the same point in time when it was over 1.5 years old, was just 5.9.
This says one of two things:
1) The PS2's game selection sucks (I don't think this is the case)
2) People with PS2s buy less video games than people with Xboxes, in general
The PS2 is truly the mass market machine, that's how it keeps its momentum and that's why it's big. Hell, in modern movies it's become a catchphrase (I'm thinking of XXX, where he says 'Think less Prague Police, think more PlayStation -- blow stuff up!' ).
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Here is where you let your fanboyism clearly overpower your sense of reason Ashie. You tell everyone that X-BOX is far superior to PS2 without any really compelling reason. You still can't beat the arguement that PS2 has far more good games (that is games that are considered good by critics and fans, not exclusively me or you ) and that videogame systems are for playing games , not oogling over fancy hardware chips. |
The Xbox is a far superior console. You want reasons? Every single hardware spec on the PS2 is outdone by a good margin on the Xbox. The Xbox is doing far better at this point in its lifetime than the PS2 was in its, and it's a newcomer.
The PS2 does have its fair share of great games, but so does SNES. SNES has more games, even.
The PS2 is obsolete, it's old. To my tastes the lineup for Xbox games beats the PS2's rehashes, and apparently to most gamers as well since for Christmas more are expected to buy the Xbox than PS2 or Gamecube.
Sony's milking a popculture cash cow, nothing more. Call it elitism if you want, but all Sony is doing is buying rights to big name "proven" franchises (which usually means they're on the way out of being cool anyway) and selling the image associated with the PS2. MS is focusing more on original content (Ed Fries is a Nazi when it comes to that), and Nintendo on its franchises.
Elitism or not, PS2 is the popculture machine, which is the reason why it sells more. Games are another reason, but most of the "great" games for the PS2 simply aren't that good.
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
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i can't use a pad at all in FPS games. i require a keyboard, a mouse-- seems so much more natural than trying to juggle two joysticks.
and as for additional features in a console? none. in fact, i'd much rather have everything on a PC rather than on a console-- why? for us$300+, i get something that only plays games. maybe dvds, if i purchase something extra. and then i have to purchase another peripheral, and a service, just to play a game online. for us$600-900, i can have a system that will play most games quite well, and do loads of other things-- word processing, data crunching, programming, browsing, chatting, mmorpging, etc.
twice as much for many many many more features.
if you can stick all of that on a console, maybe you'll convert me-- but you'll also have to bring over a keyboard and mouse first.
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Saint Marcus
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Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:22
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Look in your average store in Europe Asher.
few XBox games, tonnes of PS2 games. Most of your hyped titles I haven't even seen in stores yet!
And this isn't just a recent observation, it has been that way since launch and still hasn't changed. Of course, same for the PS2 at first. But we're not comparing the PS2 games of 2 years ago with the current Xbox games, are we? As it stands, Europeans see little reason to buy an Xbox (it's sales still are far behind that of the competition), and it won't change anytime soon.
I have asked you this a dozen times, and will ask you once more: why should a European buy an Xbox now? Few games in stores, few top titles, poor sales figures, and nobody to swap games with or to play against in LANs. I'm sure it's different in NA, MS's home market, but in continental Europe the Xbox is totally outclassed by the PS2, and as soon as new pokemon and mario games pop up, the GC as well.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Look in your average store in Europe Asher.
few XBox games, tonnes of PS2 games. Most of your hyped titles I haven't even seen in stores yet! |
Maybe that's because they're not out yet? Those were upcoming titles.
I don't know what your guys' problem is in Europe, you fruits have always been too weird for my tastes.
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(it's sales still are far behind that of the competition), and it won't change anytime soon. |
I had heard they were doing quite well after the first price drop, and now really well at the 159 mark?
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I have asked you this a dozen times, and will ask you once more: why should a European buy an Xbox now? |
I'm not a European, that's not up to me. Evidently if you're the average European gamer, then you'd have no need to get an Xbox because you're into games that the Xbox isn't geared towards. Stick with your PS2 and like it, doesn't mean that it's the best there is. Just the best you Euros want.
It's a catch-22: You won't get lots of good games in Europe unless you actually sell some consoles there, and you won't sell consoles there until there's tons of good games. It's kinda funny how you whine that there's not much selection for Xbox compared to North America, when it's not selling as well as North America there. If you guys want more selection, sell more consoles.
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I'm sure it's different in NA, MS's home market, but in continental Europe the Xbox is totally outclassed by the PS2, and as soon as new pokemon and mario games pop up, the GC as well. |
Outclassed? No.
Outsold? Yes.
Sony sold the PS2 on marketing hype during a time with no competitors. Does it surprise anyone they have the largest install base this year by a good margin, and therefore the most popular bigname franchises? Both Nintendo and MS both knew they'd never be able to topple Sony this generation, it's more of a testdrive for MS. Gain gamers' confidence, gain developer's support (it costs far less and is far easier to develop an Xbox or even Gamecube game), gain retail support, and test the waters with Xbox Live. The real competition starts in 2005 with Xbox2 and PS3, where Sony's huge advantage is stripped away.
Keep your PS2 and be happy. I had one and sold it, and almost everyone who has both Xbox and PS2 will tell you which one they prefer the games to be on. You don't need to continue justifying your statement to stick with what you know turned out alright, I'm just letting you know you're missing out on a ton of great games because you seem to think you can only have one console at a time and can't afford an Xbox.
Did it ever occur to you to go multiconsole and get the benefits of both PS2 games (the stupid little FFX games to the popculture cash cows like GTA: Vice City ).
I went multiconsole with MS and Nintendo, but Sony's future games led me to selling my PS2 a while back. But it seems you can't live without the PS2.
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reds4ever
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of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:22
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i'm a European who bought the XBox at launch in April, i knew my choice of games would be restricted for the first 6 months or so, but ive had Halo, RalliSport, Amped and Abes to keep me occupied while i wait for the developers to put the finishing touches on their games. so it hasn't been too much of a hardship! The next month or so see's Turok, Timesplitters2, Morrowwind, Splinter Cel and Knights of the Old Republic (to name but a few) released. (yes i like FPS and RPG's)
The main reason i went a year and a half with no console, waiting for the XBox to arrive, is that i didn't want to have to play noticably poorer games on my console than i was used to playing on my PC.
It has been a slow start software wise but looking at the release dates for the games just around the corner, it'll have been worth it.
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Saint Marcus
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Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:22
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quote:
almost everyone who has both Xbox and PS2 will tell you which one they prefer the games to be on. |
the only person I know who has both consoles, does think the Xbox is pretty cool, but is constantly complaining about the lack of quality games on it. That's why he normally gets 2 PS2 games for every Xbox game he buys.
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because you seem to think you can only have one console at a time and can't afford an Xbox. |
I already have 2 consoles, why buy a 3rd one?
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Did it ever occur to you to go multiconsole |
Yes. I got a GC and PS2.
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I had heard they were doing quite well after the first price drop, and now really well at the 159 mark? |
WHAAAT? Last time I checked, the Xbox was still at 250 or so.
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I went multiconsole with MS and Nintendo, but Sony's future games led me to selling my PS2 a while back. But it seems you can't live without the PS2. |
why sell your console? that's just stupid. Looking at all the new up and coming PS2 titles, I won't sell mine. And besides, PES is reason enough to own one.
not counting GT3/GTC, FFX, GTA3, TTT, VR3 and VF4
nor counting future PES2 (fall), T4 (fall), GTA Vice City (fall), Auto Modellista (fall), GT4 (2003), FFXI/FFXII (2003?)
and besides that, I'll soon be playing Super Mario Sunshine
and you're right Asher, who needs just one console when you can have two! The two obvious reasons why I picked a GC and not an Xbox are: the price at the time (GC being 100 euros cheaper), and childhood sentiment (I owned all previous Nintendo consoles). And with these two consoles, combined with a PC, I got ya'll beat
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
WHAAAT? Last time I checked, the Xbox was still at 250 or so. |
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/369/369332p1.html
quote:
August 28, 2002 - In an unexpected move today, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe announced it would be slashing the price of the European PS2 from £199.99 to £169.99, or approximately EUR259.99. Only three hours after the Sony announcement, Microsoft countered with a price break announcement of its own, beating Sony by a short margin as it was revealed the Xbox would retail for £159.99, or approximately EUR249.99. Going into effect on Friday, August 30th, the aggressive prices cuts should spur an increase in sales for both systems during the upcoming holiday season.
The PS2 and Xbox cuts have many wondering if Nintendo will announce a price drop of its own. Early guesses put the current £129.99 GameCube coming in at £99.99, but we'll have to wait and see if the big-N follows suit. |
Xbox is 250 euro, I was thinking pounds.
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why sell your console? that's just stupid. Looking at all the new up and coming PS2 titles, I won't sell mine. And besides, PES is reason enough to own one. |
Because for the price I sold my PS2 and the games I was bored with on it, I got a Gamecube and Super Smash Brothers?
More Gamecube games coming out which interest me than PS2...
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not counting GT3/GTC, FFX, GTA3, TTT, VR3 and VF4 |
I thought I already went over those games? Either don't like them or got bored of them after a while.
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nor counting future PES2 (fall), T4 (fall), GTA Vice City (fall), Auto Modellista (fall), GT4 (2003), FFXI/FFXII (2003?) |
PES2...a game that won't even come to North America as far as I know.
T4 -- hate the franchise.
GTA Vice City -- GTA3 in the 80s. Not really excited about it, will probably download it once it hits PC...
Auto Modellista -- Cell shaded racing games? You gotta be kidding me.
GT4 -- Might be good, if it is I'll get my fill of it at a friends house.
FFXI -- You mean the FFXI that totally bombed in Japan? I'm not a fan of the entire FF series, so...
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and besides that, I'll soon be playing Super Mario Sunshine |
I was playing it for about 5 hours today so far.
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And with these two consoles, combined with a PC, I got ya'll beat |
I've got two consoles hooked up to a kickin' home theatre system, and a top of the line PC (Athlon XP 2100+, 512MB DDR333, GeForce 4 Ti4600), so I'd think I'd have you beat.
Last edited by Asher on 05-09-2002 at 03:56
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04-09-2002 01:39
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