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centrifuge
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By all means, submit... I am in favor of an extension for you. This time in particular, due to the lack of submissions so far.
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Jesper Portus
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Germany
May 2002
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadow
So Loc, if it's possible, and the other players don't have any concerns over it, could I get some form of official extension?
It'd be much appreciated. This game's been a MAJOR struggle and taken a damn long time... I'd really like to be able to submit it.
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I agree with you!
I don´t know, if I can finish my game till thursday. I play a fast as I can, but the pink are 25 researches in front - will say they have tanks and I crossbowman!!!
So long
JP
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:22
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Just started this one, and since everybody's pretty well wrapping up, I guess I can tell my tale of woe without giving much away.
3820BC right now, and I'm still alive....that's the good news I guess, but somehow in a war with Carthage, Egypt, the Celts, and the Eutruscians. Eight cities under my belt, five built the old fashioned way, three conquered from the Eutruscians. Three good armies, a force in Antium (first city I founded besides Rome, built some six tiles north, on the coast. Army there is preventing Grecian expansions/incursions, and is presently 8 units strong. Two armies slugging it out with the Eutruscians/Celts in the south, one is ten strong and the other 9. Lost one of the cities I recently founded to the cursed Celts, who intentionally hung around outside the city gates till it grew to size two, then attacked....bravo there! 
I routed the offending army and am doing the same....skulking outside my own freakin city till she grows again. Meanwhile, my force that's been manhandling the Eutruscians has them down to two cities. One will fall in approx. three turns, then I'll have to hang back and wait for my army to heal a bit or get reinforcements before striking out for their last. Still, they shouldn't be a bother much longer.
Even tho the terrain ain't the greatest, I'm planning on turning the inland sea south of Rome into my own private Med. Since I'm acquiring Eutruscian (and soon, hopefully Celtic) cities, it makes sense to expand in that direction, even if the land is less than perfect (lossa swamp). Nevertheless, I'm making a decent showing of it, and am currently beelining for the tech that allows forts. Barbs are GREAT in Cradle, but I'd rather have them bugging someone else!
Having a blast so far, more to report later!
-=Vel=-
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Martin Gühmann
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Berlin, Germany
Mar 2001
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Even tho the terrain ain't the greatest, I'm planning on turning the inland sea south of Rome into my own private Med. Since I'm acquiring Eutruscian (and soon, hopefully Celtic) cities, it makes sense to expand in that direction, even if the land is less than perfect (lossa swamp). Nevertheless, I'm making a decent showing of it, and am currently beelining for the tech that allows forts. Barbs are GREAT in Cradle, but I'd rather have them bugging someone else! |
I planed this, too. But something went wrong, the Southern civs settled there and I made some empire extensions in the North, to parcify the Greeks a little bit.
quote:
Originally posted by Jesper Portus
Fun: I new nation called himself the HEXAGONIANS. They lifed one turn ... |
There is also a civ in the game called the Apolytons, they were intended to make MarkG to add Cradle into the old CTP2 database, actual this didn't work, until Locutus became CTP2 database manager.
-Martin
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:22
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It's interesting, so far, the only civ that's being nice to me is Greece. We even have a peace treaty, offered by them, with absolutely no prompting or bribing on my part. Shoot, I'm taking it! Currently neck deep in wars with lots of bigger guys than me, I'm happy to see a friendly face!
The only war I actually started was with Carthage, on the island north and west of me, and I SWEAR it was an accident!  I was moving my little Coracle around, and hit the wrong button...POOF! City assault! I retreated after taking some damage, and tried to make amends, but they're having none of it, so I'm in hot water with them. 
As to everyone else tho, the Eutruscians picked a fight when they ambushed a warrior and killed him, the Egyptians when they ambushed a warrior in the mountains and lost, and the Celts, when they took a lil' size two city of mine. So....I'm taking them in order. Since the Eutruscians attacked me first, they're getting the brunt of my rage, tho in truth, I had one brush with disaster in fighting them. Threw my army (6 warrior, 6 slinger) against a city with 12 fortified defenders and got WHACKED!) While I was building up a second assault force, they took half the army out to counter attack. Fortunately, I had reinforcements streaming in from all over the place, scraped together enough guys to beat that force, and then it was easy to get the city. That seemed to take most of the fight out of them. They've only got one city that's worth anything anymore, and I've got 9 Slingers and a warrior nearby to relieve them of it (prolly, it will be disbanded/enslaved tho....too close to my other ones). After that, I dunno. I'd rather just make peace with the Celts, as they are too far away to really absorb till my city limits get higher, which I imagine will be quite some time. Might attack them, take a city, and then offer it back for peace tho...we'll see....
-=Vel=-
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:22
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Played another 1000 years or so last night. 2800something BC. Eleven cities, finally got the tech to begin constructing fortresses and watch towers, and that became the first priority for the nation. We built something like ten watch towers and three forts, so we now have places throughout the empire in which to heal and rest our troops.
Some of the fringe watch towers are staffed, as are two of the three forts.
I'm only at war with two nations now, Second Carthage (to be specifically differentiated from the original Carthage), and the Egyptians. I'm significantly larger than C2, and Egypt is too far off to be anything more than the occassional threat, so by and large, the borders are secured.
Thanks to the rapid proliferation of watch towers and forts (which brough my burgeoning PW from a high of 78k to something in the 30k's), we've dramatically reduced the number of barbarians spawning inside our borders, so blessedly, that threat has been diminished.
Problem areas:
* My northern and southern most cities are still mostly surrounded by FOW, so if barb uprisings occur, this is where it'll be. My goal is to keep them localized to these areas (the most exposed cities to enemy attacks).
* My troops are getting a bit long in the tooth. In 28somethingorother, I am STILL building spearmen, warriors, and slingers. They're holding their own thanks to walls and terrain defense bonuses, but more and more, it's becoming a daunting prospect to attack better equipped troops. Currently 7 turns from Javlin cavs tho, so this should help us greatly.
* My science is (obviously) lacking. One potential bright spot there is that nobody has yet started on the temple of zeus, and the happiness kick it provides should give me more slider latitude. Will start it and see how I fare.
* Almost a complete lack of terraforming. Our southern cities (which we captured) have whatever terraforming they had upon capture, but we lack even basic terraforming techs. Soon as we get to the point where we can begin replacing our aging corps of warriors and spear chuckers with javlin cav, we'll be turning our attention to this HUGE problem, with an eye toward getting commerce boosting stuff, now that our borders are secured. We can presently do three kinds of terraforming: Roads, Watch Towers, and Forts, and have those in abundance. It's everything else that's conspicuously absent.
So....with something approaching peace in the land, I'm thinking that now is the time to increase PW with an eye toward VERY rapidly putting our economy on the map and continuing to play a bit of catch up in the tech race. If the peace holds, and if we can somehow wrangle a peace out of the last two guys we're fighting, I'll be able to do the ol' 50-70% PW thing and really kickstart the economy....
-=Vel=-
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:22
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Yeah...not a game-breaker, but it does add too much incentive for a very early attack on your nearest neighbor. I mean, I could *do* the terraforming (eventually) on my own, but when I get the requisite techs, with the points I'm keeping in reserve (still have not turned my own native PW generation back on), I'll be able to instantly transform my nation's economic structure. I like that....that's coolio, but I readily admit that it's a bit exploitive of the current system, and so as not to make it even worse than it already is, I curtailed any future incursions into enemy territory (now that I'm at max cities, I would have normally stopped, tho the way it's set up now, there's a big incentive to continue, but I'm not gonna take undue advantage).
AWESOME game so far!!!!
-=Vel=-
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mnbryan37
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Hex,
I don't have a clue as to what triggers it (the PW windfall). In 4 Cradle games, I only got it against one AI. Don't know what was unique about that occurrence.
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:22
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The event happens early in the game because the AI gets a on-going bonus of PW, plus it starts out with a nice chunck of PW funds. The problem occurs because in the early game, the AI does not have too many Tile Improvements to build, and so the fund is not heavily used. Once the AI reaches some tile improvement-providing advances, the fund is whittled down quickly.
One of the goals of Cradle was to slow down the human's ability to early-blitz. Elements such as militias, low heal rates, barbarian incursion, reduced vision for warriors, and pushing the first scout unit (Jav Cavalry) back further on the tech tree were intended to buy the AI some setup time and make early-blitz harder to do - not impossible, but harder...
Vel's offensive PW strategy is a very sound one, (even without the bonus), but getting a total of 75k PW in the early game makes that strategy somewhat unbalancing. If Vel did not have the fund, he could still do what he wanted to do, but it would take longer and he would have to be more selective where he does it. The need to make a important decision has been removed from him, and the challenge in these types of games should always involve the need to make a decision at the cost of something else.
And I echo Vel's observations - Forts are incredibly important to a player - whether you are a peaceful builder or a warmongor.
To put it in perspective, at 3,500 PW per fort, he could put down 10 forts quickly, and basically cover all points of his empire with healing locations, as well as putting forts by any targeted civs - and also road his way to those civs - as well has quickly boost up most of his cities with whatever improvements he wants. This will significantly close the human/AI gap, especially for the warmongor. Couple this with the ability to raze cities, and Cradle becomes a lot easier to play.
You still have to deal with the tech disparity and to some extent, the city cap, but a major hurdle has been cleared...and it's almost too easy to pull off.
So I am not against removing the bonus, but it needs to be toned down.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:22
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::nodding:: That was my sense of it as well. I figured that the AI must have started with a big pool of PW points, and I just hit them before they could spend down. Interesting side note here, is that when a new civ spawns (I had the Zulu spawn in a Eutruscian city that rebelled as I approached....took 'em out anyway), they apparently do NOT get a starting boon of PW points to play with, as in that case, my PW did not increase notably.
But yes....it was VERRRRY tempting to use one of my roving settler teams (I have four on standby....none built, all from disbanded enemy cities), and it'd be very easy to road/fort my way into the southlands and simply raze everything and settle it at my leisure.
Probably, I could do that with the Greeks in the north, and the Egyptians in the east, and have this big continent to myself till I could get a better government form, but there'd not be much fun in that, so I'll leave them be, and see if I can do it the ol' fashioned way....
-=Vel=-
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:22
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LOL! You're better off than I am, Shadow! It's 1700something BC in my game, and I've got 11 cities, NO terraforming to speak of, and am still building warriors/slingers (been ignoring the military side of the tree).
So far, it's been paying dividends, but it remains to be seen whether I'll be able to hold out.
I'm researching juicy terraforming techs now, with an eye toward doing a massive round of terraforming soon, and then, revamp that aging military! Right now tho, my warrior/slinger groups are hard pressed to beat the stuff I'm facing....charioteers and mounted archers, swordsmen and regular archers all outgun me. Thankfully, we've built a string of stout forts, watch towers, and such, and have advance warning when the baddies approach. If not for that, and making use of terrain advantages, we'd be totally unable to compete, and would be swept from our empire entirely.
Fingers are crossed that we can hold the line till we get our terraforming done tho....I've got about half my cities bulking up military, while the other half work on basic infrastructure.....
Probably, I should have kept the pressure on while I had momentum, but in an effort NOT to take advantage of the PW bug, I opted to hole up and defend.....that required a dramatic restructuring, and I've been paying the price, but I think I'm over the hump now....we shall see....
-=Vel=-
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:22
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Question (for all who have had crashes)...
Are you using the option, when capturing a city, to enslave the population? The reason why is that it seems that this part of the code is buggy. I ran a playtest recently (regarding the PW issue) and when I tried to enslave the city after capture, the game locked up. At the same time, I'm assuming that Vel was able to successfully use this option, at least based on his reports  (Vel, is this correct???)
The bug search on this problem is especially hard, because I can't find the pattern here. Some players have successfully finished the game, others have had problems with it. And the hard part is that there had been little feedback on the stability of 1.32 up until the tournament. I know that v1.3 was very stable, because of little or no reports on game crashes. The reports of problems were due to incorrect installation.
If the problems continue, I may have to pull some of the SLIC's post 1.3. if I cannot determine what is causing the problems. Most are minor additions though, so the overall gameplay should not be affected.
Vel, what is your OS??? Some problems reported due to Windows XP. I'm using Win 98.
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mnbryan37
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Hex,
I had no crashes at the time I enslaved cities. In fact most of my crashes came before I Enslaved my first one. They always occurred during the AI's movement turn. My OS is XP.
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07-10-2002 05:17
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