03-09-2002 08:14									#1
	quick question about building a wonder Get a bigger avatar today!

In my game, the chinese built a wonder 4 turns before i did, now i wanna reload the game and somehow make myself get the wonder.
how can i do this?
(ive tried altering the civ3mod.bic file, but it doesnt do anything)
so what should i do?

	03-09-2002 08:46									#2
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It depends on how far back your save games go.

You cannot do anything with the editor to change a game that you are playing. The save game files contain the .bic so the rules are fixed for that game.

If you can move back far enough in the timeline you should be able to do what you should have done in the first place whenever you are in a race for a Great Wonder with another Civ. Mine all the tiles you can and pump up the population to whatever the limit is. Maybe even work more mined tiles and let the food box go down if its realy tight. If you allready did all that your only way to speed things up is to go on the offense and get a GL.

	03-09-2002 09:02									#3
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damn, so if I change the .bic file, it doesnt apply to saved games? only new games?

	03-09-2002 09:10									#4
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quote: Originally posted by ElitePersian damn, so if I change the .bic file, it doesnt apply to saved games? only new games?

yep. each sav carries with it the bic rules you used (you can play scenarios you know, you dont have to mod the civ3mod.bic).

if you can go back far enough, you could work tiles with more shields.

but thats cheating

	03-09-2002 09:12									#5
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I actually remember now I once modded the .bic file a long time ago to make the Sistine Chapel take more shields to build, and it worked.
are you sure it can't be done?

	03-09-2002 09:17									#6
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Maybe

	03-09-2002 09:19									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X Maybe

you think it can be done?

	03-09-2002 12:00									#8
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Sure you can make that mod. But it will only work in NEW games. Unless you are playing one of the earlier versions of the game. Not sure if it was changed in 1.17f or 1.21f but it sure is changed now.

	03-09-2002 13:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Sure you can make that mod. But it will only work in NEW games. Unless you are playing one of the earlier versions of the game. Not sure if it was changed in 1.17f or 1.21f but it sure is changed now.

ok so that explains why i was able to change the rules of saved games before and not now.

	03-09-2002 13:57									#10
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Apparently the change was made for tournaments and for the, now near, future when Multiplay becomes available. Prior to the change it was possible to cheat by changing the .BIC in Games of the Month. Probably still is but the cheater would need to use a file editor of some type and then put it back the way it was before after the cheat. Which might make the cheaters game crash.

	03-09-2002 17:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by ElitePersian I actually remember now I once modded the .bic file a long time ago to make the Sistine Chapel take more shields to build, and it worked. are you sure it can't be done?

This was a feature that was introduced in one of the later patches, 1.21f IIRC.

	03-09-2002 17:56									#12
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I once went back 20 turns on a game after being beaten to a wonder by 2 turns (or so). I increased my production in that city to produce the wonder before the AI by 3 or 4 turns. Guess what (lots of sarcasm here). The AI still beat me to the wonder by 2 turns. And yes this was long before espionage - and it spawned a decent thread with lots of mud-slinging.

	03-09-2002 22:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH And yes this was long before espionage - and it spawned a decent thread with lots of mud-slinging.

You don't need espionage to investigate a city. Just an embassy.

I would guess it had to do with the random number generator in this case. Does anyone know if the AI ever uses Great Leader to hurry a Wonder?

	03-09-2002 23:16									#14
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It certainly does in 1.29! I just lost a game I was winning by a mile (production-wise). The AI built the UN 4 turns before me and won.

Investigating cities is a red herring. Neither the AI nor the human can investigate every city in a civ every turn. When you'll finish a wonder has to be one of the things the AI "knows" (this might have been changed with 1.29 but I doubt it)

	03-09-2002 23:41									#15
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You only have to investigate the city that is building the wonder which you can see if you have contact with the civ anyway on the F7 screen. If you don't have contact you only the get the notification that the wonder is finished and no notice about starting.

I have done that a few times when I thought the AI might have a chance of beating me to a wonder. The best way of course is to be far enough ahead on tech that the AI can't start the wonders. Hard on higher levels of course. I am playing on Monarch at the moment. Decided I didn't care for Emperor as I am lazy and was too much like work for a builder. Might try it again as more of a warmonger. Sure is easier on Monarch that way.

quote: The AI built the UN 4 turns before me and won.

Now that would be really annoying. I have lost on the UN and I hate it. I played with the UN turned of for while. I didn't want to win that way and I sure didn't like losing that way. One more reason I am waging war more at the moment. Now I have allies. Sure is funny though seeing a one city civ declare war on me and try to invade with a galley while I am shelling it with artillery. Poor Bismark. I guess he just had enough of that miserable position and wanted to go out fighting.

	03-09-2002 23:42									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH It certainly does in 1.29! I just lost a game I was winning by a mile (production-wise). The AI built the UN 4 turns before me and won. Investigating cities is a red herring. Neither the AI nor the human can investigate every city in a civ every turn. When you'll finish a wonder has to be one of the things the AI "knows" (this might have been changed with 1.29 but I doubt it)

You don't need to investigage every city. F7--shows what city a wonder is being built in.

	04-09-2002 00:24									#17
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Yeah you're right. I still disagree with the F7 key though. I dont use it myself for that reason so it slips my mind.

	04-09-2002 00:32									#18
	Civ3MultiTool Savegame Modifier Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Gramphos' (sorry if I grabbled the spelling) Civ3MultiTool has a Savegame Modifier which I use to my favor in situations when I'm building wonders, only to have the AI build a few turns ahead of me, even though I started construction long before they did. Not only to I force the game to give me a completed (next turn cycle) wonder, but I usually SEVERELY punish the offending city: kill its people off, sell its improvements, stuff like that.

Gramphos' Civ3MultiTool is lurking around poly somewhere...sorry, don't have the direct link handy.

	04-09-2002 00:37									#19
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Found the link to the Civ3MultiTool Thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=47897

	07-09-2002 02:51									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Found the link to the Civ3MultiTool Thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=47897

so with tool, i can make myself build the wonder the very next turn, without affecting the game otherwise?

	07-09-2002 05:40									#21
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One of a number of things you can do with this nifty little program (Thanks be to Gramphos...All hail Gramphos!). Before editing any savegame, I make a copy of the savegame file I want to change, edit the copy, then load the edited copy ingame and play. If I'm not satisfied with the outcome, I do it again wash/rinse/repeat until I get the outcome I want. I punish the AIs only out of spite...and evil...and fun...

Just read that thread, CAFEFULLY play around with the savegame modifyer (the other sections of the program are geared more towards modmakers), and you'll get a good feel of what you can do with this program.