04-09-2002 22:39									#1
	War Academy: General Offensive against Persia Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

After looking at the save I have come to the conclusion that we will soon be in a position to launch a broader offensive against Persia. First we will take tyre and raze sidon. Now I estimate that we will have 4sw+2horse for the initial assault with 2 more swords coming up. No even if we lose a sword at each city we will have an army of 4sw+2horse to go eastward. Also we have 3swords from france that will catch up. I believe we could take gordium and antioch and thus obtain another source of iron and deny the persians immortal. My question is this "Do the people support a widening of the war against persia?"
Aggie

	04-09-2002 22:55									#2
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I do, I'm thinking of the benefits of having ALL the incense and spice to boot. After the destruction of Sidon I Believe there's a city site that could serve as a location for barracks to heal injured troops and send them back to the front, and be a fairly good city afterwards.

Could easily support a south road into the Persian heartland, and should peace be necessary, would further surround Tyre in an envelope of culture for potential culture flip and puts some buffer between the Persians and our Iron.

Attachment: new sidon.gif
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	04-09-2002 22:56									#3
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This is a really tough one. ATM I'd say no we need all our millitary for the US offensive.

But we could send the units we currently have near the area in to take a few cities before we hit the US although the number of Persian archers in our territory is worrying.

A hard decision. We maybe able to take a few cities and then sue for theology in fact.

I can't see there being much support for a broader offensive as I think alot of people are just looking for peace now.

	04-09-2002 23:03									#4
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We can always take America, their pathetic and their UU isn't available for a while.

Persia is in a lush position with us as a bufferstate. When they connect that iron their UU and GA are right around the corner.

We need to take as much of Persia as we can or they'll be all over us. They have no back to worry about, just us and England. Do you really want Persia to have a GA with those big cities their building around all those luxuries?

1)They can trade luxuries for money and defense.
2)They will have unprecidented science and commerce output (big cities clustered around capital with river AND luxuries beefing up their science/commerce production).
3)Their on the coast so they'll get Astronomy and contact the Lost Civs first.

There is no way we need that on our doorstep IMHO.

	04-09-2002 23:25									#5
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IMHO we should take Tyre and raze Sidon (hopefully it'll reach 2 citizens by the time we get there so we'll take it instead of autoraze it. Keep in mind that Persian cities grow fast because of the effect of the Great Pyramid) and then reasses our situation. If we think we can go for Persia's iron then we definitely should because it will make Persia absolutely defenseless against our knights when they come to take their precious wonder. Otherwise we should settle for a deal involving Theology or any other techs they acquire by then.
Just keep in mind that Persia might be able to use Theology to bribe other civs to go against us like France did. If that happens we'll have to end the war prematurely, so I hope it doesn't.

	04-09-2002 23:35									#6
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As I posted in the "peace with persia" poll, they have no Iron and have no defence against Knights. Either we take them now, or someone else (like England or Germany) will take them later. Besides, that wonderful grassland with all those lux would be a great place for the Forbidden Palace (then build our new Palace somewhere in Abanana Minor and control the entire continet with little corruption).

All this is in addition to the fact the the Persians broke a RoP with us. MAKE THEM PAY

	05-09-2002 00:34									#7
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I want both to autoraze. Move Sidon to the image I posted above and move Tyre one tile over to the notheast. It's wasting tile space by being too close to Geofront.

Fully agree with donegeal.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 05-09-2002 at 00:42

	05-09-2002 00:48									#8
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Good idea Ghengis. The new Tyre will also have a defensive bonus of +50% which will come in handy in case Persia gets funny.

	05-09-2002 00:53									#9
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Illustrated............

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	05-09-2002 01:41									#10
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Raze both cities. We can get a couple of workers perhaps, and rebuild in better locations. If we decide to prosicute the war - why not go all the way. Take everything, particularly the pyramids. Free grainery in all the cities is not a bad thing to have. Spice and incense. Excelent. If we take them down to one city, we make peace with them and can take all their tech. Then in 20 turns we get tired of them, just snag that last city. WHat do you say? go all out!!!!

	05-09-2002 03:07									#11
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KILL!!

	05-09-2002 03:08									#12
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I'm a builder... no, really.. I am

	05-09-2002 03:30									#13
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Go GodKing! Go GodKing!

	05-09-2002 03:39									#14
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This plan seems to be a winner. Who wants to name it?
Btw, there's a poll about this issue here .

	05-09-2002 04:01									#15
	Name of Plan Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How about Operation ROP(e) Revenge?

	05-09-2002 05:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Illustrated............

Now I find two new cities being planned to put a squeez on Geofront.

	05-09-2002 07:39									#17
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I propose renaming Geofront to Geosqueeze.

Either that or "Creamy White Filling".

	05-09-2002 07:50									#18
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal How about Operation ROP(e) Revenge?

I like it.

	05-09-2002 14:49									#19
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There is all kinds of debate going on about Uber Island and those debates greatly affect this thread. People seem to think that continuing with ROP(e) Revenge will somehow impede the colonalization of Uber. Yes, I don't think that we will be able to send additional settlers there, but I truly don't see how that will greatly slow the process. Uber Island will be ours in a short time. Ok, MAYBE, and thats a big maybe, send one additional settler... but thats all!! Please tell me how ROP(e) Revenge will kill Uber.

	05-09-2002 14:50									#20
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We must first clear our land of all persian units.

	05-09-2002 15:24									#21
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New Tyre and Sidon are going to be in great places...

But remember we need the two settlers ready to found those new cities asap the old ones are razed. And some one to defend them. And do we have them? I dont think so.... This should be taken into account by the ministers.

	05-09-2002 16:10									#22
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The graph shows the power of Persia to be about the same size as ours? Are we over estimating our own power?

	05-09-2002 17:03									#23
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Daveout, I have considered current archers in our territory in my orders. Horse will hunt them down like the dogs they are.
Torkkeli, I think we can use tyre to produce its own disbanding setttler then move it. As for as defense we will advance units from border cities as we go. For example we wont need units in uber or geofront except fro happiness concerns.
Viking, I think power is estimated by # of units. They have quite a few archer, vs the swords and horse we will attack with. I have done some caluculations and here are the forces that can participate in the attack
11 Sword(2E,3V,6SW)
2 Horse(Both Vet)
Note: 2 Of these are from france.(Spear will replace)

I would like a total force of 20 units 15 sword and 5 Horse. Some of the horse can be chariots if we want GA.
I am still thinking about specific stategy. Right now I am going along these GENERAL lines. After tyre and sidon we attack toward Gordium and Antiock. After that that we will split the forces. 1/2 will attack the northern cities and 1/2 will attack SE to take the pyramids. However if we decide to take the pyramids we will either have to have a huge garrison in the former persian capital or eliminate them totally, otherwise the dreaded culture flip could occur.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 05-09-2002 at 17:09

	05-09-2002 17:22									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie we can use tyre to produce its own disbanding setttler then move it. As for as defense we will advance units from border cities as we go.

Ah yes. Forgot about the disbanding...
So we only need one extra settler. That is not so hard as we can use the one that might go to Uber Isle. And if not enough defensive forces are around we can use the offensive.

	05-09-2002 17:55									#25
	Disbanding Cities Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry, guys , disbanding a city produces workers, not settlers. Your thinking of CTP.

	05-09-2002 18:32									#26
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In Civ3 disbanding a city produces nothing unless you build a worker and it only had one pop point.

	05-09-2002 18:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Sorry, guys , disbanding a city produces workers, not settlers. Your thinking of CTP.

Uups. I thought it sounded unfamiliar...

	05-09-2002 19:00									#28
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I meant building a settlet at that city when it was 2 that gives the option of ending the city.
Aggie

	06-09-2002 04:26									#29
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Aggie! Look! Just past the Mountians! The Great Pyramids of Persopolis are within view! This is a truly glorious moment in Apolytonian History! With this victory, we seal the victory of Apolytonia! We will be unstoppable!