06-09-2002 20:55									#1
	History and Sexual Orientation Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For my Historical Methods course (level 400), I am trying to decide between two topics for my thesis paper, and one of those is this:

Was President Buchanan homosexual?

It seems that no one knows what sexual orientation President Buchanan was.
Andrew Jackson teased him about his "preference" with a nickname (wish I remembered what that nickname was), Buchanan supposedly slept with a future vice president, and Buchanan maintained correspondence with another man over letters, that were much more intimate than usual between two men.

So I do not know what his sexual orientation was. Was he homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual??
Maybe if I did more investigation, I can decide whether ot not, I can argue with confidence, that he was a homosexual.

And what about all other famous historical men and women who lived from the ancient era, owards, whose sexual orientation to this day, remains shrouded in mystery??
How could anyone ever find out, without letting political motivations lead them to argue without solid evidence, that the person was gay or straight?

	06-09-2002 21:03									#2
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Don't do a paper on Buchanan, he was a flop for a president. If you could show that Tamerlane was a homosexual then you'd be on to something.

	06-09-2002 21:14									#3
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Well, frederick the Great was probably gay...
I think that Stanis?aw August Poniatowski before He became
the lover of Katherine the Great had a very intimate relationship with one Englishmen...
Henry Valois, the king of Poland and France, liked young boys...
In Russia, recently there was an action against a book in which xxx scenes with Stalin and Chruszczow f.e. were
involved.... Complete fiction and cheap sensation, but
it may interest You then...

	06-09-2002 21:17									#4
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1) Buchanan is hardly well known and wasn't that good of a President.

2) Aren't there more important people that you could waste time trying to out? It seems like that would be among the least important things about a person from a historical standpoint.

Last edited by DinoDoc on 06-09-2002 at 21:28

	06-09-2002 21:41									#5
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An interesting one is Edward the Confessor, one of England's most famous kings and for a few centuries England's patron saint. His sexuality is queried- some link him to one of Earl Godwin's sons.

	06-09-2002 21:47									#6
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hmm, from what I understand there's fairly good evidence that Richard the Lion-Hearted was homosexual, if that's any help.

	06-09-2002 22:02									#7
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MrFun, maybe more for language geeks, but you might try to filter out the suppresssed homosexuality from Karl May's (German writer) books.

	06-09-2002 22:04									#8
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Julius Ceasar was supposed to like boys as much as girls.

	06-09-2002 22:09									#9
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Drop the gay stuff and come at history, the White House, and sexuality from a different angle: Peter Lawford once famously said of Nancy Reagan that "she gave the best head in Hollywood." Was it true? Why not find out!

	06-09-2002 22:09									#10
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Alexander the Great

Edward the Confessor makes sense. Was he the king before Harold and William the Bastard?

	06-09-2002 22:10									#11
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to help you decide ask yourself this:
1) can your questions be answered
2) what significance does this have to..well....anything..how is this important?

	06-09-2002 22:42									#12
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quote: Originally posted by devilmunchkin to help you decide ask yourself this: 1) can your questions be answered 2) what significance does this have to..well....anything..how is this important?

How is it important?
I just want to find out the truth -- was Buchanan heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual?
After all, how can you get to know a historical figure more, if you don't know a part of their identity?
Not to mention that we need to start including homosexuals in world history.


In spite of Buchanan being a less-than medicore president, I chose him, because he seems to be the only past American president whose sexual orientation is seriously in question.

I will not venture into any topic choice outside of the United States, as my research will require access to primary sources.
Sorry Euro fanatics.

	06-09-2002 22:43									#13
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quote: After all, how can you get to know a historical figure more, if you don't know a part of their identity?

That may be, but why in blue blazes would you want to know more about Buchanan?

	06-09-2002 22:46									#14
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Maybe for the same or similar reasons that other historians have researched and written about Buchanan.

Unless you can find a more prominent president, whose sexual orientation was/is in question.

	06-09-2002 22:49									#15
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Greek/Roman is a whole different idea altogether. It was less homosexual in the modern way (whilst still being it), and more about men/boys. This form of love was in some thought (can't remember whose though - Plato?) purer than man-woman love, since both were male in this case. It was also a social arrangement of sorts, where the man would up the boy's social status by introducing him to the privileged circles within which he circulated, and the boy would, um, reciprocate somehow.

	06-09-2002 22:49									#16
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Maybe John Brown was gay.

	06-09-2002 22:51									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Drop the gay stuff and come at history, the White House, and sexuality from a different angle: Peter Lawford once famously said of Nancy Reagan that "she gave the best head in Hollywood." Was it true? Why not find out!

Just the thought is enough to make one shrivel up and disappear.

	06-09-2002 22:59									#18
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He probably said it about Nancy Davis, but it would be a lot funnier to think of President Max Headroom's missus going down on the brat pack.

Isn't Buchanon the only bachelor president, and wouldn't that leave him wide open to political digs about his sexuality? It wouldn't be a very good political instinct to be gay and not have a wife as a beard.

My vote for most likely bisexual president is Bush I. Lots of hours with the Wiffenpoofs circling-jerking their way through Yale, and then he marries his mom? It's got Norman Bates all over it.

	06-09-2002 23:01									#19
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Theodore Roosevelt like wrestling ALOT. And he spent ALOT of time out "hunting" with the boys.

	06-09-2002 23:05									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler Isn't Buchanon the only bachelor president, and wouldn't that leave him wide open to political digs about his sexuality? It wouldn't be a very good political instinct to be gay and not have a wife as a beard.

Just because he was single in his presidency, does not necessarily call for questioning his sexual orientation.

In my first post, I mentioned other claims that could hold more ground than just saying "he was single" as to why his sexual orientation is still in question.

	06-09-2002 23:08									#21
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Are you making a thesis or a gossip column?

	06-09-2002 23:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Are you making a thesis or a gossip column?

Oh look, we have an amateurish troll.

	06-09-2002 23:13									#23
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There was one other bachelor president as well. One of the early ones, can't remember who, though.

There is a lot of room to question Buchanon's orientation, but there's no real proof, which is what you'll need in order to "out" him. You'd have to get your hands on undisclosed or exceedingly rare primary sources to mak the case effectively. Many have tried, no one has prooven. Buchanon left no smoking gun.

	06-09-2002 23:15									#24
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I think that Madison was a bachelor, but that Abby Adams was his companion. Whooo-eee!

	06-09-2002 23:19									#25
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That sounds about right, except wasn't it Dolly Madison who saved the paintings from the White House when the Brits burned the city?

Maybe I'm confusing widower and bachelor. Jefferson had no first lady.

	06-09-2002 23:24									#26
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There was one other bachelor president as well. One of the early ones, can't remember who, though. There is a lot of room to question Buchanon's orientation, but there's no real proof, which is what you'll need in order to "out" him. You'd have to get your hands on undisclosed or exceedingly rare primary sources to mak the case effectively. Many have tried, no one has prooven. Buchanon left no smoking gun.

Yes -- my history professor has explained why it would be difficult.

I think now, I am going to choose my first choice topic:

The Emancipation Proclamation produced a revolutionary change in the society and economy of United States.
That is my thesis -- for now.

	06-09-2002 23:26									#27
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quote: The Emancipation Proclamation produced a revolutionary change in the society and economy of United States.

I would argue the 13th or 14th Amendment was much more of a revolutionary change .

	06-09-2002 23:28									#28
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Why does the paper even have to involve sex, much less homosexuality? It makes it sound like you have a big, gay axe to grind

	06-09-2002 23:28									#29
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And I would argue that both the Amendments and the Proclamation merely recognized the state of affairs that was already in existence, that the Slaves of the South had already emancipate themselves by going on a general strike.

(The truth lies in a combination of all of the above).

	06-09-2002 23:33									#30
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That sounds about right, except wasn't it Dolly Madison who saved the paintings from the White House when the Brits burned the city?

It was either Dolly or Abby who went back to the White House for a later president (after either John or James was dead). It might have been Dolly staying around for Monroe, but I dunno--I forget when James Madison died.