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MosesPresley
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethelred
Your thinking is the same as many used in the Viet Nam War to denigrate the US's motives there. There is still no oil comeing from Viet Nam. |
More bait and switch. I never heard that about Viet Nam. I was told at the time it was because of the domino theory and that it was necessary to save the Vietnamese from communism by killing them. We were only there to help them. I'm not sure how burning down bamboo villages, shooting the men and raping their women was going to win the Vietnamese's hearts and minds and make them good little capitalist consumers, but our leaders know best and will always continue to look after our best interests.
Back to the WTC mess.
There are plans for an oil pipeline now and have been for several years. The pipeline is backed by Unocal, $1.9 billion, and was approved by the Pakistan leader Pervez Musharraf and interim Afghanistan leader Hamid Karzai back on February 8, 2002 of this year. Karzai was an adviser to Unocal. Zalmai Khalilzad, who is U.S. special envoy in Kabul now,also worked in Unocal in the 90's. The WTC atrocity is being used as a smoke screen to further the American military presence in central Asia and to seize for the oil industries more oil. Its seems fairly obvious to me. This is one of the reasons why Bush doesn't want an independent investigation of 9/11.
On a side note:
These multi-national oil companies show no allegiance to the US. They honor only money and tax evasion.
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MosesPresley
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
1.9 billion is chickenshit
You do have a point somewhere in all this "big oil done it" stuff? |
1.9 billion is a lot, but it is nothing compared to the profits that will be made off of the pipeline.
If you can't see the point, I can't help you. You don't think it is the least bit suspicious that Unocal and it's employees are running Afghanistan? Wake up!
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by MosesPresley
More bait and switch. I never heard that about Viet Nam. |
Not bait and switch. Reality. I sure heard it. Maybe its because everytime the US does anything someone thinks its about oil.
quote:
I was told at the time it was because of the domino theory and that it was necessary to save the Vietnamese from communism by killing them. |
The Domino thery was derided constantly at the time. Nevertheless Cambodia, Laos, and South Viet Nam all fell to Communism and only Thailand remained. No one tried to save Viet Nam from Communism by mindlessly killing South Viet Namese. Not there wasn't mindless killing but the fact that it was pretty clearly mindless should give you a clue as to the total lack of any strategy behind it.
Perhaps you were thinking of North Viet Nam and the Viet Cong. They definitly were killing people in South Viet Nam to terrorize them into not defending themselves or even talking to US troops .
quote:
We were only there to help them. I'm not sure how burning down bamboo villages, shooting the men and raping their women was going to win the Vietnamese's hearts and minds and make them good little capitalist consumers, but our leaders know best and will always continue to look after our best interests. |
Nonsense. No one there had a clue as to they doing except for those that were just trying to stay alive. So were there or is everything you know from Oliver Stone. I wasn't there. My draft number didn't come up.
quote:
Back to the WTC mess.
There are plans for an oil pipeline now and have been for several years. The pipeline is backed by Unocal, $1.9 billion, and was approved by the Pakistan leader Pervez Musharraf and interim Afghanistan leader Hamid Karzai back on February 8, 2002 of this year. Karzai was an adviser to Unocal. Zalmai Khalilzad, who is U.S. special envoy in Kabul now,also worked in Unocal in the 90's. |
Well stupidity is its own reward. I think I won't be investing in Unocal. You have to be pretty damn foolish to invest in the place in near future. Maybe never. Afganistan has been destroying outsiders for milenia.
quote:
The WTC atrocity is being used as a smoke screen to further the American military presence in central Asia and to seize for the oil industries more oil. Its seems fairly obvious to me. This is one of the reasons why Bush doesn't want an independent investigation of 9/11.
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There has been Congresional investigations. Who else is going to do it? What is seems obvious to you isn't necissarily real. It looks to me like Bush is panicking. He sure did at the start and while he seems to have pulled himself together enough for the war in Afganistan I think he is panicking over Iraq.
quote:
On a side note:
These multi-national oil companies show no allegiance to the US. They honor only money and tax evasion. |
Tell me something I don't know although you are probably overstating it. Many of the people in the companies DO have allegience to the US. They would talk.
American companies are expected to make a buck and to avoid taxes whenever possible. Avoid is legal, evade isn't. Some companies have made the mistake of thinking otherwise and had the boss wind up in jail. Not often but it has happened, even in the oil industry.
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Pandemoniak
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of Xanadu, French Section of the Apolyton Must Crush Capitalism Party
Jul 2002
time: 06:22
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9/11, who profits the crime ?
Not Al-Quaeda, for sure.
Not Palestine, nor any arabian state, even Irak, especially Irak.
The only things that take advantage of the Fall of the Twin Towers are :
- oil companies :
Just look at the price of oil from may 2001 to may 2002, Im not talking about the eventuality of building a huge pipeline across Afganhistan, but just taking the facts, 9/11 was an incredible boost for american economy. It doesnt mean only american oil companies are suspect, some european companies such as Elf are also suspects. Knowing more about my own country than about other countries, I assure you that Elf made many conspiracies comparable to the 9/11, involving far more deaths, but of course less impressive and spectacular.
-warfare industry :
That is quite simple, and america is the specialist of that : in order to sell your weapons, you need a war. USA warfare industrialist have never been afraid to use/ask/bribe/whatever the CIA to start these wars. Refer to the Oriental Timor business if you dont believe me. As well, in a "calm" situation (regarding the USA) like it was in 2000, a warfare industry cant explain why it has so much financial help from the state. 9/11 brought the situation back, just like in the cold war : usa economy cant even survive if it has no ennemy, they found their new ennemy on 9/11.
-nationalism supporter :
I heard kids saying they used to love their country, but since 9/11, they say "I'm ready to die for my country". The nationalist feeling is everyday stronger, and it does serve the government and the economy of the state. We had in France something similar in 1998, called the "World Cup Effect". For the six/nine months after the world cup, France government passed many laws that would have been fairly contested if people werent so busy singing we are the champions" (im a bit sarcastic, but I think thats the truth). USA gets a similar advantage, but bigger. As usual.
Some people talked about the Pearl Harbour conspiracy, and I want to point there that many bad coincidences happened at Pearl Harbor as well. Im not saying either it is a conspiracy, but many ships were out on patrol and those who were left in Pearl Harbour were not even in battle configuration, like they were supposed to be 24/7.
Anyway, back to 9/11 I find really troubling that what america calls "a disaster" is actually an incredible boost for all its economy, foreign relations, etc...
The "plane crash" on the Pentagon seem strange too.
I also wear a tinfoil hat.
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Lincoln
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Well I guess Caligasta was right again when he said something like 'there is always someone on Apolyton that will defend any position regardless of how absurd it is.' Where is that French book anyway??? I want to read it so I can help encourage the world to destroy Bush like we did Hitler before he has a chance to harm any more innocent people like Sadam Husein. After all, look what he did to Afganaxtan! Those women over there are now even working! Of course it must be the puppet government that we set up as a ruse to build another oil pipeline to Israel. Yea, that's what it is...
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:22
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Of course I can make the distinction. My post was mainly just a general mockery of conspiracy theory.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MosesPresley
1.9 billion is a lot, but it is nothing compared to the profits that will be made off of the pipeline.
If you can't see the point, I can't help you. You don't think it is the least bit suspicious that Unocal and it's employees are running Afghanistan? Wake up! |
Sorry, I do futures and futures options trading in the energy field as part of my consulting work. Caucasus oil fields have been known since before WWII, and assuming that pipeline ever gets built, it's really not going to be that big of a deal.
Karzai is hardly "Unocal" - he's a local with connections (gee, seems natural for politics) who was a Unocal consultant. Anybody with brains trying to do business in the area would hire guys like Karzai to make introductions, grease the skids, so to speak. That doesn't make him a policy-maker for Unocal, or mean that they own him. Besides, he has no influence whatsoever in the relevant part of Afghanistan.
You're the one who is searching for significance from a series of very tenuous and essentially meaningless connections. Wake up yourself, you fell asleep in front f too many X-files reruns. 
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Ethelred
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I looked at it. They need some more clothes. They seem to think that their underwear constitutes a full Royal Panapol and are totaly unaware that the US doesn't have an emperor.
Oh and Piss off. I prefer to think on my own.
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MosesPresley
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Explain this one smartasses:
This from an article by Christopher Hitchens in the Nation.
Consider the following. On September 11, you could not fly and I could not fly. The national airspace was locked down. But twenty-four members of the bin Laden family, living in the United States, were gathered by private jet under the auspices of Prince Bandar Bin-Sultan, the Saudi ambassador in Washington. With what he gratefully describes as the cooperation of the FBI, the Prince mustered all the bin Ladens, who at the first opportunity were taken under FBI escort to Boston's Logan Airport (departure point for two of the death squads) and then permitted to fly home with no questions asked. I do not think that any question of racial profiling would have been involved if members of the immediate bin Laden tribe had been inconvenienced to the extent of being asked a few questions. Boasting of this amazing coup on October 1, Prince Bandar told Larry King an affecting story about one of these privileged escapees:
But you know what hurt me? A young man said to me, "Prince Bandar, I always couldn't understand why the American Japanese wanted a memorial. What's the big deal?" He said: "Suddenly I realize: I'm a rich man, I'm in Harvard, and I have to leave my school, not because I was guilty, but because the emotions are high." That really touched me, Larry.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?...0121&s=hitchens
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MosesPresley
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You pay the man's soul a trip to heaven with 72 virgins.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MosesPresley
Several articles that support my assertions. Read them and decide for yourself. |
And I don't even like Bush.
An article about allegations doesn't suddenly make them true or false.
and back in 1996-97, just about everyone hailed the Taleban as a far better alternative than what had preceded it.
Sorry, but that's still not a very big pipeline project. The 24 tcf gas field is nice, but nothing to get real excited about. (I converted from cubic meters). If it was a domestic US field, it would supply about 16 months of US natural gas consumption, assuming you could extract the entire field (which never happens, there's always residual).
That's not even close to the capacity of the underdeveloped Wyoming-Colorado basin gas fields, so there are plenty of domestic pipeline projects to be done which are more profitable.
It pales in size compared to the current flaplet over the Saudi's 25 billion pipeline/gathering project.
Without exclusive rights to the production fields and gathering systems, and with a competing pipeline (existing transportation routes through Russia), it's a nice little project, but not a huge make-or-break deal for any oil/gas company. Not even close to being worth any apocalyptic conspiracy, even if the people involved had the means and were so inclined.
It just is another demonstration of how ignorant conspiracy theorists are on both economics and any technical subjects that are inconvenient to them. Stick with alien abduction stories.
edit - corrected typo "basic" to basin
Last edited by MichaeltheGreat on 12-09-2002 at 02:33
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MosesPresley
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You assume a great deal about me. I'm not sure why what job a person has, is important in determining their credibility, but since you stated yours, I'll state mine. I'm an investment banker with J.P. Morgan, now JPMorganChase. Do I have cred now? :P
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Capt Dizle
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As an investment banker you may have great credit but by definition investment bankers have no credibility.
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10-09-2002 10:38
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