09-09-2002 21:48									#1
	I've got a question about the mods... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have read the topic about the most known mods, but they didn't answer my question... and I couldn't find an answer anywhere

A long time ago I played ctp2, but within short time I deleted the game again, since it wasn't worth getting. Now I've seen there's been made a lot of mods to the game, so I thought I'd check to see if there has been a mod that changes the worst parts of the game:

- PW: Basicly, this sucks, I prefer to have a worker or settler to do the job

- Piracy: I hate the fact, that it's completely impossible for an anit-navy guy as me, to stop the AI from pirating my trade lines over water

- Pillage: I also hate, that the AI always just sail to my island, and keep pilaging my nets, without worrying about starting a war (And again, and anti-navy guy as me, can't have warships all over the place, just to stop my friends to pillage my nets)

So... does there exist a mod, that changes this?

The reason, why I'm asking, is because I just saw the game really cheap, but there's no way I'll buy the game, if these bugs still exists...

	09-09-2002 21:54									#2
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PW is considered one of the wonderful advantages of CtP2 over the Civ-Series, so you certainly won't find a mod changing that, even though it actually could be done - so great is the modder's power in CtP2.
As for the other two, so far no; for landunits AI-tresspassing is not possible anymore. However, there's actually some discussion going on about the naval units here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=24539

	09-09-2002 22:25									#3
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Hi, i remember Pming with you a while ago. Glad to see you back.
Wasnt a problem with the patch that Martin fixed to you.

Pirate. Send them a request to stop piracy

Pillage. If he had a high regard with you wouldnt pillage you. So srtat the diplomatic suck up.

The AI has a betrer water military with you. Let him take advantage of it and get yourself a better army.

	09-09-2002 22:37									#4
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quote: Originally posted by ADG - PW: Basicly, this sucks, I prefer to have a worker or settler to do the job

Actual PW is the sollution for the 200++ settler bug of Civ2, I needed one hour to move all my units over the map (caravans, fright transport, settlers and engineers). I am afraid you won't find a modder to mod it out and replace it by the inferior settler model. Even if it is possible to allow the creation of tileimps only if a settler is on the tile and it can be prevented to move from this spot as long it doesn't contain a tileimprovement. And also the AI can be tought to use the settlers. In the end you would have to do this mod on your own.

quote: Originally posted by ADG - Piracy: I hate the fact, that it's completely impossible for an anit-navy guy as me, to stop the AI from pirating my trade lines over water

Actual I am not too bothered with it my observation was that it wasn't too much, ok I didn't traded too much, but also this can be changed, but why so upset about it, the AI shouldn't be nice too you otherwise it would be too easy. Actual if I remember correctly then the AI respect a stop pirate treaty if it had agreed for some time in GoodMod. Even this pirating can be removed from the game totally.

quote: Originally posted by ADG - Pillage: I also hate, that the AI always just sail to my island, and keep pilaging my nets, without worrying about starting a war (And again, and anti-navy guy as me, can't have warships all over the place, just to stop my friends to pillage my nets)

Your friends???? Hey pillaging is an act of war, they aren't your friends, they are your enemies. Actual in GoodMod I didn't saw this so many times, actual only concerning my seas, if they were on land then they rather tried to take my cities instead of pillaging the surroundings. For the sea pillaging, they don't have enough troops on ships right there so what they can do if they can't take the city is to pillage the surrounding, that is a policy of burned land, to damage you. Also this can be removed from the game, but this would mean a loss of deepth and by the way you was also able to pillage in Civ2.

-Martin

	09-09-2002 22:41									#5
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I play CtP so i dont have to move 200 settlers/workers a turn, its take it or leave it. To change CtP2 to the settler/worker system simply wouldnt be cricket. In fact these are very similar ways to build improvements im surprised it bothers people. Im surprised people like moving workers around every turn, theres just as much strategy in saving/spending PW. I prefer to spend 15 minute turns moving armies though.

edit: argh cross post

	09-09-2002 23:10									#6
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1) If you think the flawed worker/settler system of Civ2/3 is actually better than the superior PW system of CtP1/2, by all means, stick to Civ2/3. Unless you do it yourself, you'll never find anyone willing to downgrade CtP2 in the fashion you want.
2 & 3) If you don't like navy, play on land-only maps
If you have a map where at least 50% of the terrain is water, maintaining at least a half-decent navy pretty much unavoidable, as it should be (I'm not a big navy-fan myself, but I can't imagine what human history would have looked like had we never bothered to invent shipbuilding/seafaring). However, if you really want to, you can easily set the AI priorities for pillaging and pirating to a large negative value in strategies.txt, or simply remove the pillage/pirate abilities from naval units in units.txt. Both these options will solve your problems. But again, these features are fundamental parts of the game, you'll have a hard time finding modmakers who will disable such features in their mods.

	09-09-2002 23:17									#7
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quote: you'll have a hard time finding modmakers who will disable such features in their mods.

I dunno, maybe a "Civ2" mod would be interesting. Just to see its really poor download figure compared to the Apolyton Pack.

ADG, the only way to eliminate PW would be to use the PW system, but force you to have a settler in place first, then disable the movement of the settler until the timp was complete. Ugly, and worse than either of the existing systems I think.

Pillaging and piracy are easy to disable. Open units.txt and simply remove all instances of the words "CanPillage" and "CanPirate"

	09-09-2002 23:32									#8
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There is a way to remove PW You will just need someone to do this for you. I can teach. I just dont want to be the guy who removed one o the best features of CTP2 and loose time doing it.

	10-09-2002 00:16									#9
	Re: I've got a question about the mods... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by ADG - PW: Basicly, this sucks, I prefer to have a worker or settler to do the job

I can understand that this is a preference issue - some players will like the worker setup as opposed to PW, especially when you need to protect your workers from capture and can negotiate with the AI to get more workers. My viewpoint is that those features in civ3 are strategically minor though, and I do not hinge my strategic gameplay on those things when playing civ3.

These are elements that ultimately boil down to what defines one type of game from the other type of game. Personally, I would not want workers in CTP2, and would not make the effort to mod it in, but if somebody (Pedrunn mentioned that it was potentially possible) wanted to attempt it, it would help draw some more civ3 players over here and continually cement the overwhelming advantage that CTP2 has in the Modding department over civ3.

quote: Originally posted by ADG - Piracy: I hate the fact, that it's completely impossible for an anit-navy guy as me, to stop the AI from pirating my trade lines over water - Pillage: I also hate, that the AI always just sail to my island, and keep pilaging my nets, without worrying about starting a war (And again, and anti-navy guy as me, can't have warships all over the place, just to stop my friends to pillage my nets)

Now the shoe is on the other foot, except in CTP2, you have to expend units to protect trade routes and tile improvements instead of using units in civ3 to protect workers. As mentioned by IW, you can easily modify this in units.txt (5-10 minutes max) - but be aware that none of the main Mods have disabled the pirate/pillage feature (why would we want to????)

Pillaging is considered an act of war in CTP2 - and I like that in CTP2, the AI will pirate even if it is not an act of war because it means that I can never sit back and take peace for granted. In both civ3/CTP2, being able to maintain peace or declare war on your own terms is the surest way to victory.

quote: Originally posted by ADG The reason, why I'm asking, is because I just saw the game really cheap, but there's no way I'll buy the game, if these bugs still exists...

Not bugs, but features...

	10-09-2002 00:28									#10
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Thx for the input folks... Would someone be so kind to upload the neccesary files, so I can see if I can upgrade the game myself, since I don't want to waste my money, if I can't do it anyway!?! Or is there too many files that needs to be changed?

	10-09-2002 00:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Hi, i remember Pming with you a while ago. Glad to see you back.

Hi (again ), glad to see, that someone actually remembers me... but if I'll be back for good, or just visiting...that'll time show (If I can fix the bugs or not)

Oh, and btw, I remember you too... and if I'm not mistaking, didn't you have that avatar a year ago?

	10-09-2002 00:49									#12
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As IW said, it's an easy fix to make on your own

When opening Units.txt, you will see a series of entries like this (this is for the Fascist unit)

##################################################
##########

## UNIT 122
UNIT_FASCIST {
CantBuild
GLHidden
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_FASCIST
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_FASCIST
DefaultSprite SPRITE_FASCIST
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_ATTACK
Attack 65
Defense 45
ZBRangeAttack 45
Firepower 3
Armor 1
MaxHP 23
ShieldCost 1200
PowerPoints 1000
ShieldHunger 12
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 200
VisionRange 3
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_HEXTAPUL
ActiveDefenseRange 0
LossMoveToDmgNone
MaxFuel 0
CanEntrench
CanExpel
CanPillage
CanPirate
ExertsMartialLaw
DeathEffectsHappy
IsSpecialForces
DefendAgainstSpies 0.25
OnlyBuildOne
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_FASCIST
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_FASCIST
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_FASCIST
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_FASCIST
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_FASCIST
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_FASCIST
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_FASCIST
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_FASCIST
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_FASCIST

CanAttack: Land
CanAttack: Mountain
CanSee: Standard
MovementType: Land
Size: Medium
VisionClass: Standard

CanReform {
Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY
Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY
}
}


Simply look for the lines of text that look like this

CanPillage
CanPirate

and remove them for all the entries of the units that you do not want to have this ability.

You can use Notepad/Wordpad or Word to open the file

If you are going to use a Mod, you will have to do that for the edited unit.txt file that is for that specific mod. Somebody can point out which file you need to edit if you let us know which Mod you are using. (In Cradle, it's CRA_Units.txt)

	10-09-2002 00:49									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

Pirate/Pillage.

Go to ctp2 main directory\ctp2_data\defaul\ai_data\

find the the file goal.txt

in this file there are a bunch of GOAL_* find those for pirate and pillage (i am not sure but probably is GOAL_PIRATE and GOAL_PILLAGE)

in the data for this goals there is the entry

code:

PowerBonus

Last edited by Pedrunn on 10-09-2002 at 00:56

	10-09-2002 00:55									#14
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Actually, I doubt whether removing PW would work at all. There is no way you could get the AI to move a thousand settlers round the map.

	10-09-2002 01:03									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

yeah the ai is the only problem but i think we could still leave the TI tab but

The human
with CreateImprovement return STOP (except if worker placement)

The AI now:

HandleEvent(CreateImprovement) {
if not human find closest worker and send to the location[0] once unit at location create value[0] disable settler for future call of this event return STOP


EDIT: Hexagonia way is far the best way to remove pirate and pillage.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 10-09-2002 at 01:42

	10-09-2002 01:34									#16
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I’m sorry, but I am just laughing at this idea of eliminating PW. Talk about the tail wagging the dog…

	10-09-2002 01:36									#17
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Don't worry, ADG, I remember you too

	10-09-2002 04:32									#18
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Remove PW????? I won't be doing it that's for sure. It's so much better than a million settlers/workers on the map.

Pirating/pillaging. You don't build a navy? In a Civ game? Not wise, I can tell you. Try playing WAW or GoodMod on a 70% water map without a navy.

I'm with the others. Why take these elements out when they are features of CTP2 that put it above the Civ series.

	10-09-2002 15:21									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn PW. we will need to go much deeper here. it will need changes in the unit.txt, orders.txt and some slic. Do you really want to do this? EDIT: To tatally remove these orders Go to ctp2 main directory\ctp2_data\defaul\gamedata\ find the file orders.txt delete all data for the ORDER_PILLAGE and ORDER_PIRATE. Than go to the ctp2 main directory\ctp2_data\defaul\ai_data\ find file goals.txt delete all data for the GOAL_PILLAGE and GOAL_PIRATE the in the same folder find the file strategies.txt delete all GoalElement GOAL_PILLAGE and GOAL_PIRATE and the lines. every time you see it (probably a dozen of times)

Thx...

Well... the pw system is "only" the 3rd worst part of the game, so I might be able to live with it...

But the other two are the most annoying parts of the game, so as long I'm 100% sure this can be removed, I might buy the game... Give me a few hours to think about it...

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Don't worry, ADG, I remember you too

TWO people who remembers me I remember having seen you before, also...

	10-09-2002 18:15									#20
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Ok, I chose to buy the game, installed the cradle mod, changed the files, started the game, saw the Americans wasn't in the game, ended the game... I haven't seen anything about this being mentioned anywhere, so the craddle thingy has no chance to stay!!!

What about the MedMod? Has that one also changed some civs?

	10-09-2002 18:28									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Cradle is an ancient mod, of course the Americans don't exactly fit in there. MedMod also changes some civs but the Americans *are* in (in fact, I think Cradle is the only mod that doesn't have the Americans as a civ). I advise you to give Cradle another try though, it's VERY good and after all, what difference does it make what civ you play with? What's in a (bunch of) name(s)? (You could always add the Americans yourself, but personally I would think it to be rather silly to play with the Americans in a game with Greeks, Etruscans, Romans, Celts, etc - but that's just my opinion...)

	10-09-2002 18:46									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well... I hoped that it just was the ancient times, it changed, not the Civs... It's just plain stupid to play against Civs, that I haven't heard about, and never will (Half of the Civs included are unknown to me...)

Which Civs does the MedMod change?

	10-09-2002 18:50									#23
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I just uninstalled/reinstalled the game, made the neccecary changes, but when starting the game, I get this attached msg:

I can start a game, but I haven't played much (Played one turn), but it's pretty annoying to switch to Windows, just to show the msg, and then you can get in the game again...

Attachment: orders.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

Last edited by Adagio on 10-09-2002 at 19:03

	10-09-2002 18:56									#24
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You're not playing a mod simply because it doesn't have the Americans?!?!?!

Simple fix for Cradle...

Go to the ctp2_data/default/gamedata/CRA_playing options/orig civs folder and grab the file
CRA_civilisation.txt

Switch that file with the file of the same name, located in the folder
ctp2_data/default/gamedata

Then go to the
ctp2_data/english/gamedata/CRA_playing options/CRA_original civs folder and grab the file
CRA_civ_str.txt
and switch it with the file of the same name, located in the folder
ctp2_data/english/gamedata

The reason why the Americans are not in Cradle is that Cradle is mainly an Ancient/Medieval Mod so the civ lists use historical ancient civs. You can play Cradle through the Modern/Future ages though, but the timeline is a lot longer - after 600 turns you are just hitting 750 AD.

Finally, a note...
There are many differences between civ3 and CTP2. It's OK to compare the two games, but each game should be judged on it's own merits too. Rather than griping about how a feature is not included in a particular game, focus on what the game does have to offer.

I've played both - IMO...
- civ3 has much better diplomacy and this aspect of the game flows over into other areas such as dynamic alliances, making civ3 very enjoyable and atmospheric. (However, this aspect also allows tech whoring and the idea that a player generally is better off buying techs rather than researching them himself.)
- on the other hand, civ3 has Infinite Railroad Sleaze, limited government choices, worker-created tile improvements/limited tile improvement choices, an interface that I consider less user-friendly than CTP2, a less user-friendly way to move large groups of varied units, as well as single unit combat - these are aspects of the game that I do not like. And as much as I dislike them, overall, I can still enjoy civ3 for what it does offer.

And if you are looking for a game like civ3, a simple suggestion...
Play civ3!

	10-09-2002 19:02									#25
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quote: Originally posted by ADG (Half of the Civs included are unknown to me...)

Bah, culture barbarian!

	10-09-2002 19:09									#26
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Finally, a note... There are many differences between civ3 and CTP2. It's OK to compare the two games, but each game should be judged on it's own merits too. Rather than griping about how a feature is not included in a particular game, focus on what the game does have to offer.

I am looking at what the different games has to offer, otherwise I wouldn't be back here...

Both games has some good parts and some bad parts... ctp2 doesn't have that many bad parts, but the bad parts it has, they are really bad... but what dragged me back, was the ability to mod (more than in Civ3), and the future part, just to mention af few of the reasons...

	10-09-2002 20:33									#27
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I guess you missed that:

quote: EDIT: Hexagonia way is far the best way to remove pirate and pillage.

you probably forgot to remove some goal element in the thats why the you got errors mssages

quote: more than in Civ3),

much more than it. And dont woryy soon the good parts of civ3 will be implemented by us to CTP2. After finishing the PBEM fix i plan to start a variation of the Strategic resouces concept for CTP2.

	10-09-2002 20:38									#28
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quote: Originally posted by ADG I just uninstalled/reinstalled the game, made the neccecary changes, but when starting the game, I get this attached msg: I can start a game, but I haven't played much (Played one turn), but it's pretty annoying to switch to Windows, just to show the msg, and then you can get in the game again...

I'm guessing at this point in time because I do not know what changes you did to your files, and what files you changed.

It's possible that Pedrunn's solution may have caused this problem (without seeing just what you did to your files - what files did you change???), because there may still be something in the units.txt file or the strategies.txt file that is looking for that particular goal. There are a lot of entries in strategies.txt that refer to pillaging/pirating - miss one and you will get the error message.

By simply making the change in units.txt and no other files, you are merely removing the ability for a unit to pillage/pirate without affecting any other files. (this should be the easiest fix).

	10-09-2002 21:17									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn EDIT: Hexagonia way is far the best way to remove pirate and pillage.

Might be...but the problem is: "What is it?"

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian It's possible that Pedrunn's solution may have caused this problem (without seeing just what you did to your files - what files did you change???), because there may still be something in the units.txt file or the strategies.txt file that is looking for that particular goal. There are a lot of entries in strategies.txt that refer to pillaging/pirating - miss one and you will get the error message.

I changed (deleted) what Pedrunn said... I did a search in all the files, to see if there was anything else mentioning about it, but the search didn't find anything...

	10-09-2002 21:35									#30
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right above my post with my way explanation. here is a copy:

quote: When opening Units.txt, you will see a series of entries like this (this is for the Fascist unit) ################################################## ########## ## UNIT 122 UNIT_FASCIST { CantBuild GLHidden Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_FASCIST DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_FASCIST DefaultSprite SPRITE_FASCIST Category UNIT_CATEGORY_ATTACK Attack 65 Defense 45 ZBRangeAttack 45 Firepower 3 Armor 1 MaxHP 23 ShieldCost 1200 PowerPoints 1000 ShieldHunger 12 FoodHunger 0 MaxMovePoints 200 VisionRange 3 EnableAdvance ADVANCE_HEXTAPUL ActiveDefenseRange 0 LossMoveToDmgNone MaxFuel 0 CanEntrench CanExpel CanPillage CanPirate ExertsMartialLaw DeathEffectsHappy IsSpecialForces DefendAgainstSpies 0.25 OnlyBuildOne SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_FASCIST SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_FASCIST SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_FASCIST SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_FASCIST SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_FASCIST SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_FASCIST SoundWork SOUND_WORK_FASCIST SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_FASCIST SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_FASCIST CanAttack: Land CanAttack: Mountain CanSee: Standard MovementType: Land Size: Medium VisionClass: Standard CanReform { Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY } } Simply look for the lines of text that look like this CanPillage CanPirate and remove them for all the entries of the units that you do not want to have this ability. You can use Notepad/Wordpad or Word to open the file If you are going to use a Mod, you will have to do that for the edited unit.txt file that is for that specific mod. Somebody can point out which file you need to edit if you let us know which Mod you are using. (In Cradle, it's CRA_Units.txt)