10-09-2002 16:48									#1
	What I hate in Civ3. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I like Civ3 very much, but I really hate some things which opposed me like this game at 100% rate.
I like to play via LAN in Civ2 and CtP2 with my friends and I would like that Play The World haven't so annoying issues. Sure, now to late to want this.

1. Railroad with unlimited movepoints. This allow very quick army dislocation to my opponents. Would be better if all ground units could move fixed number of squares (f.e. 9) via RR.
2. All naval units (even Trirema) and many ground units have at least 2 square vision.
3. You can see another one square off your country border. Even if no one your unit doesn't see enemy's unit.
By another words: my naval transport will necessarily spotted by adversary far away off unload point and he always will ready prepare "Hot Meeting" for me.
Where is my favourite surprised naval descent like Civ2 Gold or CtP2? I liked it very much. Adieu my favourite tactics.
4. Aviation. They can rebase across whole world on unlimited distance. This make airbases unwanted.
Looks like in Civ3 Lindberg was born before Brother's Write first plane. But making and defending Airbases Net was very fun and hard task in Civ2.

What about name for Islands and seas? That is first Discoverer can entitle new areas. Why not?

	11-09-2002 03:59									#2
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The discoverer idea is interesting, kind of like colonization(or was it 1692AD?I dont remember)

	11-09-2002 04:38									#3
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Yes, there has been the odd disscussion about being able to enhance the game (add depth to it) by allowing civs to name newly discovered regions. Like lakes, rivers, seas, mountian ranges, valleys , islands etc. That old classic, conquest of the new world, had that feature.

	11-09-2002 05:43									#4
	Re: What I hate in Civ3. Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Iroquois 4. Aviation. They can rebase across whole world on unlimited distance. This make airbases unwanted.

I would just like to be able to use another civ's cities as airbases if we have an RoP or a military alliance.

	11-09-2002 06:30									#5
	Re: What I hate in Civ3. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: 4. Aviation. They can rebase across whole world on unlimited distance. This make airbases unwanted. Looks like in Civ3 Lindberg was born before Brother's Write first plane. But making and defending Airbases Net was very fun and hard task in Civ2.

Airbases still have a clear purpose, because of bombing range. A bomber may move across the world in one turn, but it can't bomb a city or unit unless that unit falls within operational range of one of your cities or... airbases.

	11-09-2002 07:37									#6
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I dislike the lack of efficency in the game. If Firaxis had stopped and thought things out before they rushed to program everything they could have found ways to do everything with fewer clicks. This would make the game go faster and be more interesting.

	12-09-2002 05:01									#7
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quote: 1. Railroad with unlimited movepoints. This allow very quick army dislocation to my opponents. Would be better if all ground units could move fixed number of squares (f.e. 9) via RR.

I've moved the railroad ability to the end of the modern era, may not be a realistic place in the tech tree, but it should make wars more challenging and fun it the industrial and modern eras.

	12-09-2002 08:14									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Rebel67 I've moved the railroad ability to the end of the modern era, may not be a realistic place in the tech tree, but it should make wars more challenging and fun it the industrial and modern eras.

actually, that's not such a bad idea , I might just do this next time

(some people just remove coal alltogether)

	12-09-2002 09:46									#9
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I would like railroads to work like airlift. I want them to take 1/3 och 1/4 movement point per square but you should still be able to move anywhere within you railroad network even when you've exhausted all your MP. This would result in units hat have moved over a continent and are unable to fortify, move inte enemy areas, attack etc. and would be an OK solution to the "railroad problem".

	12-09-2002 17:22									#10
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quote: If Firaxis had stopped and thought things out before they rushed to program everything they could have found ways to do everything with fewer clicks. This would make the game go faster and be more interesting.

I find most of the time I spent moving my units about like crazy in the later part of the game when you have big number of units. AT least what they have done now is to allow stack movement to reduce this inefficiency.

	12-09-2002 18:10									#11
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quote: I find most of the time I spent moving my units about like crazy in the later part of the game when you have big number of units. AT least what they have done now is to allow stack movement to reduce this inefficiency.

Sure this stack moving better but CtP2-like stack even better. Because in Civ3 stack moving unit by unit but in CtP2 units moving all togetrher.

	12-09-2002 18:16									#12
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PTW is supposed to have proper stack movement.

	13-09-2002 00:06									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Iroquois Sure this stack moving better but CtP2-like stack even better. Because in Civ3 stack moving unit by unit but in CtP2 units moving all togetrher.

CTP2 didn't just have stacked movement; it had staqcked combat. Civ3 does not. You may be confusing them... with the same units, at least, Civ3 does have stacked units.

	13-09-2002 00:38									#14
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Stacked combat a la CTP2 is far superior as both the composition of armies and their use becomes more interesting - you also get real siege warfare

	13-09-2002 03:09									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Stacked combat a la CTP2 is far superior as both the composition of armies and their use becomes more interesting - you also get real siege warfare

I'm not debating how good it is, I'm just saying that people saying that Civ3 should have "ctp2 style movement" are almost always lumping stacked movement in with that. Just taking the movement parts, the systems are quite similar... I actually found the locking in/ locking out of units in a stack in ctp to be quite infuriating, as it would always slip my mind. Then again, with ctp you could stack different kinds of units together... it's a toss up for me.

	13-09-2002 05:39									#16
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PTw is supposed to let you order all units in the same square to go to a destination (and then no longer be a stack).

	13-09-2002 10:16									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

What I hate is cleaning up pollution. They could've abstracted that by increasing corruption.

	13-09-2002 10:43									#18
	Remove this text

Increasing corruption more? Not only would you have no trade left, but corruption is pretty abstract as is... abstracting yet another thing under it seems borderline ridiculous. What is wrong with pollution, now that you can just make your workers seek and destroy it?

	13-09-2002 16:02									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That's what I do. In the late game, I just designate some workers (okay, about half of them) as cleanup

	13-09-2002 22:57									#20
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I don't like the fact that you CAN clean up pollution. And how can pollution lower production? It makes no sense.

	14-09-2002 01:31									#21
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Why wouldn't you be able to clean up pollution? They clean up pollution all the time.

	14-09-2002 07:54									#22
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect I don't like the fact that you CAN clean up pollution. And how can pollution lower production? It makes no sense.

Because, since the beauty of one's environment does nto matter to most civ players, something meaningful needs to be the result of pollution. Besides, pollution does lower production especially of agriculture, etc., and can also damage local economies.

Pollution is cleaned up in real life, and it would be a gameplay disaster to have irrepairable pollution. For example, CTP1 made pollution impossible to clean up until very late in the game, which IMO was a silly idea that made me exasperated.

	14-09-2002 09:12									#23
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At least in CTP you can turn a tile from desert to plain, but in Civ3 the GW effect is not reversible, means once the GW chain reaction starts, it just keep on turning the whole world into desert.
Also, notice how the screen jumps around at the beginning of the turns as message such as "New York builds a Battleship" appears on top of the city. In the late game, when you have like 50 cities, this becomes quite irritating. I would like an ability to remove that. Just let me get through the turns. (and keep a message log like in CTP2);
Most of the game's complexity is due to the fact that the AI will move every single one of his many troops every turn (except those that are fortified). Note that from every tile there are 8 tiles directly adjaction to it, meaning the path searching function will have a complexity of n*8, where n is the number of squares you want the unit to move. This is a complex function, and require **** load of CPU power to process. They really need to scale down this a little, and eliminate those not needed AI troop movements.

Last edited by Dida on 14-09-2002 at 09:22

	14-09-2002 10:35									#24
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How do they clean up pollution in real life? Ok. They clean up oil from ships. But I've never hears of someone clening up smog, acid rain, chemicals, etc. And even if the actual pollution is cleaned up, the damaged it enviroments take many years go back to normal. IF they ever do.

In my post i said PRODUCTION. (Commonly reffered to as shields.) Just take a look at Ruhr in germany. Polluted and productive.

	14-09-2002 10:51									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Dida: Global warming, as far as I know, is irreversible. I hated the complete plasticity of terrain in CTP, because there were never any permanent reprecussions for pollution. Pollution itself is a warning (get your act together) and can be stemmed, but if you sit around too long irreversible damage begins to be done to the earth. Makes sense to me.

quote: Originally posted by statusperfect How do they clean up pollution in real life? Ok. They clean up oil from ships. But I've never hears of someone clening up smog

air filtration

quote: acid rain

lime

quote: chemicals

various other chemical techniques

quote: And even if the actual pollution is cleaned up, the damaged it enviroments take many years go back to normal.

Agreed, which is why it takes a worker many years to finish the job.

	14-09-2002 11:08									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I just don't agree with you. Have you seen heavily polluted areas IRL? They look like hell. Have to to work now. I'll be back tomorrow with a long post on the subject.

	14-09-2002 14:42									#27
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect How do they clean up pollution in real life? Ok. They clean up oil from ships. But I've never hears of someone clening up smog, acid rain, chemicals, etc. And even if the actual pollution is cleaned up, the damaged it enviroments take many years go back to normal. IF they ever do. In my post i said PRODUCTION. (Commonly reffered to as shields.) Just take a look at Ruhr in germany. Polluted and productive.

Since the passage of environmental legislation in the 1970s such as the Clean Air Act, pollution in the United States has been dramatically reversed. Yes, you can clean up pollution. The US EPA does it all the time and US industry, in compliance with US environmental law, has done wonders at eliminating acid rain and ozone (smog) as well as other pollutants.

	14-09-2002 15:24									#28
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It might just be easier/cheaper to prevent it

	15-09-2002 22:07									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by delong Since the passage of environmental legislation in the 1970s such as the Clean Air Act, pollution in the United States has been dramatically reversed. Yes, you can clean up pollution. The US EPA does it all the time and US industry, in compliance with US environmental law, has done wonders at eliminating acid rain and ozone (smog) as well as other pollutants.

But this did not prevent the US from INCREASING its output of Carbondioxide (sp?) and thus contributing to global warming.

	16-09-2002 00:45									#30
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Unlimited RR MP's is a big pain.

It makes it easy for a civ you are attacking to mass his forces for a devastating counterattack. This is just another cheap unrealistic trick to discourage invasions.

Same with bombers. In Civ 2 we could leave them on enemy tiles to try to stop his movement - and they did unless shot down. But in Civ 3, all bombers can do is have a CHANCE of destroying some improvements.